Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:00:
Hi everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with artist and birth worker Lauren J. Turner about how art can honor and celebrate pregnancy and birth experiences. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker, and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. For today’s podcast we have a very special guest who is going to bring some joy and beauty into our lives. And before we get started with her expert interview, I have a special announcement about something that’s coming soon at EBB. You’ve probably heard the myths and you’ve seen the keyboard warriors having debates on social media, but have you ever stopped to ask, “what does the evidence really say when it comes to vitamin K?” This is one of the most misunderstood and controversial topics in newborn care. We’re going to be breaking down the evidence, separating fact from fiction and tackling the misinformation head-on. So next week on the @EBBirth Instagram page we’re going to be unboxing some information about the boxed warning on vitamin K. The week after that we’re hosting a free Youtube watch party when we unveil a brand new EBB video to the public all about why vitamin K is routinely given to newborns. And then here’s the best part. We’re following all of this up with a 90-minute live, signature training and Q&A on vitamin K for our EBB Pro Members on Tuesday, April 29th. Want to join me in this training and get all of your questions answered? Go to ebbirth.com/membership, join the EBB Pro membership today and get your first month for only $29. Plus, lock in a discounted membership rate if you decide to stay after that first month. There are also a variety of scholarship options available on that page, designed to make this training on vitamin K as accessible as possible. So keep your eyes on the @EBBirth Instagram page, the Evidence Based Birth® Youtube channel, and if you really want to feel armed with information on vitamin K, sign up today at ebbirth.com/membership and get registered for our signature training on vitamin K. I can’t wait to have a conversation with you on this very important topic. Now today, on the EBB podcast, I am so excited to introduce our honored guest, Lauren J. Turner. Lauren is a Baltimore-based artist and birth worker whose vibrant creations celebrate the beauty of maternal health, parenting, and connection. Lauren’s artwork, which often highlights lactation, birth, and Black and Brown birthing families, has been featured in galleries, hospitals, and lactation spaces across the United States. Inspired by her own home births and journey as a doula, Lauren uses bold lines and vivid colors to tell stories that honor the diversity of parenting experiences. Through her original paintings, prints, and flat note cards, she offers meaningful ways to connect with and celebrate the journey of parenthood. Lauren also runs a shop online called Birth Nerds and is here today, this Black Maternal Health Week, to talk with us and inspire us how we can incorporate art into the joy and beauty of pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting. Lauren, welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast.
Lauren Turner – 00:01:44:
Yes, thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:01:48:
And welcome, Lauren. We’re so excited to have you here and to feature you, and have an uplifting episode about how art can honor and celebrate birth and birth work. I was wondering if you could take us back kind of to the start of your journey with birth and how your birth story shaped your perspective as a birth worker and a parent.
Lauren Turner – 00:02:06:
Oh, I’m so excited because I love sharing my birth story. I had two home births. My first was in July and the birds were chirping. I should bring it all the way back and explain that nine years ago, it wasn’t legal to birth in the state of Maryland at home. And of course, it wasn’t anything that happened to the parent, but the midwives were, you know, deemed in a certain light, although they were registered or they had, what’s it called? They had all the documentation. They were educated in a different state. So yeah, nine years ago, it was illegal to birth at home. And I took the route of wanting to birth at home because my film high school teacher, she reached out to me after I said, hey, I’m pregnant. And she was like, oh, what kind of birth are you going to have? And I was just like, what kind of birth? I’m just going to, I don’t know, like at the hospital. And so she led me down this whole journey of figuring out what place would fit me the best. So I ended up finding a midwife. They were actually amazing. And yeah, my birth was in July. The birds were chirping. I could see like the sun going down. I primarily went around like I was walking around the neighborhood. I ate, I drank, and then I came back home. And when it was time to push, you know, your body naturally, pushes. So I was in the bathtub and my midwife, Alexa, she saw me and she was like, oh, wait, we have to get the birth pool together. So they got it together. I was in the bathtub and I came out and I saw like just this beautiful setup. And my husband was there and he got to catch our son. And it was just a beautiful moment of like connecting with my body. I was a little scared. And my midwife said, reach down and feel baby. And I reached down and I was like, oh, shoot, this baby is actually here. Yeah, it was such a beautiful moment. It felt like I got to connect with him in such a special way. And so my second home birth, it was such a challenge. It was different than the first. The type of community that I needed, I didn’t have. And I didn’t know what a doula was until after I had both of my children. So my midwife, they were like my doula and they were also like my midwives.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:04:28:
So they were your companion through the whole process. They did it all. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:04:32:
They did it all. And they came in pairs. And I had these moments where I was giving up. Like when you’re giving birth, you give in. The first time I gave in, but this time I gave up. And it was just so challenging. But she ended up coming out and she wasn’t breathing. And so I look back and my husband was crying and I’m like, why are you crying? Like I did it. It’s over. And then he- I saw that she had to give her a mouth to mouth. But then my baby girl started crying and it was such a beautiful moment. She actually captured it. My midwife, she took a photo and it means so much to me. And it definitely plays a role of how I see myself even to today.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:14:
Wow. So you had those beautiful experiences with midwives. And like you said, it was not something that was really accessible to many people in Maryland at the time. It was a long journey to get midwives to be able to practice legally at home births there, correct?
Lauren Turner – 00:05:29:
Yes, absolutely. My second was a different experience. They got to do all the testing without the extra support. But I love midwives. I fangirl midwives. I think midwives are so important in the hospital and outside of the hospital. I love the safe space that they provide for pregnant people.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:49:
And I remember, so we must have met in Baltimore then at an event there. And there was the energy in the room, the doulas and the midwives there from that, not just Maryland, but from the surrounding area as well. It was incredible. Like you could feel the change happening in that room that day. Yeah. So a lot of incredible birth workers in Maryland. And I love how you mentioned, you know, like just both the magic of having your midwife there, just their presence, but then also their skills as a clinician. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:06:26:
And the first time it was hands off. I didn’t have a cervical check. And the second time I needed those hands. Deanna, she put her hands on me. I needed it. When I say she doula’d me, she gave me that doula love. They gave me Alexa too. So I was laying down and they said, let’s change positions. And I’m like, okay. And they wanted me to get on the toilet. So when you’re giving birth, it doesn’t feel good when you’re in certain positions. So going from, you know, I can do things my way to having to be directed with people that I trust. It was a different experience.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:07:01:
They had to give you suggestions and tips the second time around?
Lauren Turner – 00:07:05:
Yes. But we got baby out and baby was healthy. Baby, you know, we did it. We did it together. I needed my team.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:07:14:
Yeah, that’s the beauty of an amazing team. So what inspired you then to get more involved with birth other than just as a parent?
Lauren Turner – 00:07:25:
These are so good questions. Okay. And I think this is like. I really didn’t want people to experience what I experienced during my second pregnancy and my postpartum. I struggled so much in postpartum and I find myself being a neuro spicy person. I struggle so much. I’m an introvert. I’m also like an INFJ, if you’re familiar with Myers–Briggs. I didn’t want people to struggle. I wanted to be someone who was there that knew what that person needed. Right. Like when we think about being a doula, we may be the only person in the room offering the birthing person water. Or asking certain questions, I wanted to be that person. So it made me become the thing that I didn’t even know existed even when I was giving birth to my first and second child. So wanting to be that person, it led me onto the journey of figuring out how to become a doula.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:08:24:
And how did you do that?
Lauren Turner – 00:08:27:
Well, my husband actually introduced me to an organization and I’m actually in line to retake my doula training. I’ve taken trainings like yours, but my goal is to kind of start over as a doula. So when I decided to become a doula, I found a training and that training wasn’t enough for what I needed. And now that I reflect back, it was because I was coming out of a home birth setting versus knowing all of the limitations of the hospital. It’s one of the reasons why I stopped doing doula work. It’s really a soft spot, too, because I wish that I had a full spectrum of education. So right now I’m actually possibly going to Mamatoto Village. Have you heard of Mamatoto Village?
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:19:
Yes, yes. I’m big fans of them.
Lauren Turner – 00:09:19:
Yes. So it feels like this is the beginning of my new doula journey. And I just want to remain educated, especially being someone who wants to be in these spaces. I want to have as much knowledge about birth, not just from my own experience, but, you know, outside of my own experience.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:40:
Yeah, and I think Mamatoto Village, which we’ve had the founder on the podcast before, we can link to that in the show notes. They have a way more in-depth training. So you’re talking about starting anew. They have the perinatal community health worker training. So it’s a really broad spectrum, well-rounded training program with more than 100 hours of classroom education, plus hands-on skill development and mentorship. And it’s an incredible resource for the community in the D.C. area, for sure.
Lauren Turner – 00:10:10:
Absolutely.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:10:11:
Yeah. So that’s super exciting. One of the things Lauren that you’ve talked about on social media is your journey with multiple sclerosis or MS. Could you talk about how living with MS has influenced your journey, both as a parent who’s given birth and a birth worker?
Lauren Turner – 00:10:27:
Yeah. MS is a autoimmune disease. It’s when your body attacks itself. It presents in so many different ways. I can say that my… symptoms has been with me for more than a few years. Like, I mean, more than a few, like I got diagnosed, but I’ve been dealing with symptoms for about two to three years. The first time I had my major symptom was when I lost my ability to feel my legs. So I couldn’t feel my stomach all the way down. If you would just like use a pencil and stab me, I wouldn’t have felt it. So I went to patient first to figure out what was wrong and I got dismissed. I was told that I was making it up. And I was also told that cannabis was the reason why I couldn’t feel my legs. And it really hurt me because I am someone who microdose. I also had a, what’s it called, like a card. I did the medical route. And although, you know, you don’t have to do the medical route in the state of Maryland, I wanted to go that extra step.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:33:
Right.
Lauren Turner – 00:11:33:
I was using it to sleep. It was used against me. Now that I reflect back, it was MS. I also went blind in one of my eyes. And then I went blind in another eye. And the MS is so different because your body’s attacking itself. It could be in your spine and in your brain. And so it just happens in different ways. Like it can come and go and sometimes it can stay. So with me, I am someone who loves to do, like I love to do things for my family. I love to cook. I love to just be that person who’s doing. I really wanted to take my daughter to dance practice. We were going to start karate, all of those things. And when these things started happening to my body, I was scared because I don’t have a big village. So realistically, I had to put those things down and figure out how I could show up. And it’s hard, you know, it’s hard to let things go. But I ended up going to the emergency room because MS also does this thing where you are weak, like think of it as being like an elderly person. I felt like I was an old lady. And I also had a, like, it felt like a belt was pushing on my stomach. That’s called the MS hug. And so when I went to the emergency room, I told them I felt like I couldn’t breathe. And that’s why they admitted me. And so when I was admitted to the hospital, the lady came in and they did some testing and she said, it’s either cancer or MS. And this was in front of my kids, you know, it’s in front of my husband. And I’m like, wow, okay, like, this is something really serious. I tried to avoid going to the hospital. Like I mentioned, I had two home births. So I’ve never experienced having a medical challenge like this. And so long story short, we found out that it was MS.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:25:
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Turner – 00:13:26:
And yeah, it’s been, impacting my life, but I’m taking medication. The medication is suppressing my immune system, but the medication is allowing my body to heal itself. So I went from like having crusty crab hands. Like I couldn’t really move my hands to now having feeling in my hand. And I just feel so blessed because it allowed me to see life differently. It allowed me to calm down. It allowed me to stop doing all the things. Yeah. It’s just been.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:57:
Well thank you for sharing that. I think it’s really important to know that a lot of people with MS are either have their symptoms dismissed by healthcare providers or like you said, said it’s all in your head when there actually is a neurological problem happening, but you’re not imagining it at all. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:14:15:
Absolutely. MS is a invisible illness. There is not a lot of people who still believe that I struggle day to day.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:24:
Because they can’t see it visibly on your body. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:14:27:
And that’s the same as depression and anxiety. I felt like it was depression and anxiety for years. And now that I am someone who knows I have MS, or I wasn’t just depressed, my body was weak, and I needed to rest. So that’s something I really try to, even in my day to day conversations with my friends, I remind them to rest, because it’s really important.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:51:
Yeah. And rest is even more critical for you to help you avoid the MS flaring up and attacking your body again.
Lauren Turner – 00:14:57:
And that goes for me. It goes for people with MS and goes for people who don’t have MS because you can get MS. I have no one in my family has MS. I thought that it was diabetes. You know? But yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:15:15:
Yeah. Again, the importance of rest for your health. Like you said, that’s so important. So how does that impact then moving forward as a parent? Like you said, I imagine a lot of our listeners can identify with you and how they just want to be busy. They’re always doing something. Right now, they’re educating themselves by listening to a podcast and they’re probably working or walking or washing dishes or doing something, laundry. And we have a hard time stopping. And then when you have little kids or an infant or a toddler, it’s really hard to stop and rest. So what lessons have you learned through all of this?
Lauren Turner – 00:15:55:
I learned so many. I think the biggest thing is that. When you have a brain like mine, someone who is… I want to say neuro spicy because I don’t have a diagnosis yet. It’s expensive. All of this stuff is expensive. But you have to find things that work for you. Now, me saying you have to rest, what does rest look like? Is it going to? Because for me, rest could mean that I’m laying in bed and my brain is going everywhere. That’s how my brain works. So maybe finding something that you can do. And it sounds crazy, right? But maybe if you enjoy playing The Sims, you know, when you were a child, like picking that up. But honestly. Not even the Sims. Let’s just say you can put that energy into creating things. That’s where I love to put my time and focus. I learned that when I do more art, I feel more free. Art is kind of like when you meditate, you know, when I’m painting, it feels kind of like I’m meditating. I’m able to listen to music. I’m able to just let my mind be free. Because for me, those like conversations that I have with myself, like I have to do dishes. I can’t, you know, I have to do this and that. If I can just find something to let my brain rest in, that is rest for me. But laying down and, you know, just like hoping to go to sleep or hoping to get rest, it doesn’t work. Realistically, you have to do what is best for you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:17:29:
And for you, it frees your mind when you paint. For other people, it might be. When they’re outside or when they’re listening to music or playing music or doing something else that they can just let go and be themselves. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:17:43:
And it helps with the kids too. Like we have the studio and my daughter’s like the artist. So when I have my music going and I’m painting, she can have her beads. Like she likes to make bracelets now, she can do her art. And it’s like a collective feeling of rest. I think that’s really important too. When you’re someone who is like this, instead of going to dance, instead of being somewhere at nine, you know, like-
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:10:
Playing traffic or public transportation or whatever it is. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:18:13:
It’s a beautiful thing to have MS because it was scary, but now I know where my struggles are. I’m actually asking for help. Ooh, that was hard to say out loud. Asking for help and just being okay with not being, the person who is doing everything. For everyone.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:37:
Yeah, I’m sure that was hard. You seem like a very independent person. So how did you get over your fear of asking for help?
Lauren Turner – 00:18:45:
Oh, I’m still struggling. I’m struggling. So there was a time where, oh, it makes me really emotional because my husband has been someone who has helped me. Like he taught me about Meyer-Briggs. He’s an INTJ. I’m an INFJ. And when I was experiencing the depth of a mess, when I got home, I had to take steroids. It messed up my mental health. But he was there. With my cane. He was there. I can’t say that I am an independent person too much. I mean, I’m independent enough. But having him show me that I need help and it was nothing I can do. It reminded me that, girl, you need to ask for help. You know, so I started asking my kids to do certain things. I was actually bed-ridden. I was in the bed and I couldn’t go anywhere. I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t drive. And so being forced to ask for help in that moment made me understand that I need help. And there are times that I can ask for help.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:19:54:
And then learning to accept it too when people offer it. But I totally get what you’re saying about how you almost like didn’t have a choice.
Lauren Turner – 00:20:05:
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:05:
You know, it forced you to. Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:20:07:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:08:
So talk more about your art. Tell us your artist journey. When did you start? And then how did you get into birth art?
Lauren Turner – 00:20:15:
Okay, so I’ve always wanted to be an artist. I went to a elementary school. Then I went to a magnet school. And then I went to a art high school. And in this art high school, we had nude models. It was like, that was most of my training. I remember the first couple of times I took my painting class. I hated painting. I was like, I don’t like this. When I say, I try to tell my kids not to say hate because hate it, but I hated it. I did not want to paint. And there was this, this teacher I had, he reminded me to just keep, just keep going. And so we had a critique one day, all the people in the classroom, we were looking at my piece and he said, Oh, I love how you did that. And everyone was like, Oh, and, and you did something special there. And I was like, you know what? Okay. I think I can, you know, I think I have it. And that put a light in me where I wanted to paint. And so I ended up wanting to go to college. I had some issues at home with my family, but I was able to graduate from CCBC as a community college. They actually purchased one of my works of art and I have an AA in fine art, but most of my knowledge came from high school. And I tell people all the time, like if you have children who are interested in art, definitely get them started now. Like there’s so many resources now. So if it’s something that they want to get into, instead of, you know, going to college, I mean, college is important, but I’m happy I didn’t have to, you know, spend all that money. And I made it, you know, I made a career out of something that I love. So yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:04:
Yeah. I mean, it just is so inspiring to see schools, particularly public schools that have magnet programs for kids who are inclined to the arts and music. And it’s like our society puts such an emphasis on science and math. And of course, those are important and language arts, but the visual arts, the musical arts, dance, theater, all of those things just open a part of our brain and touch a part of the human experience you can’t get anywhere else.
Lauren Turner – 00:22:34:
Anywhere else.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:35:
And when those kids find their home and when you found that place, I’m sure you just felt like it was home for you.
Lauren Turner – 00:22:41:
Yes. It was such a beautiful experience to be around other artists too. It was like I had a community. School was like my safe space. It was a beautiful journey to be able to have teachers who invested so much time. And yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:58:
And there is like a science to it too with the human body. So that’s really fascinating. You started learning how to paint and draw the human body really well in high school. Because I think that’s got to be one of the hardest things as an artist to learn how to do.
Lauren Turner – 00:23:13:
It is. I think one of my art teachers said, if you want to make the most money, do baby portraits. I’m not like a realistic artist. I paint more with feeling. But somehow I kind of put that together.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:23:31:
You remembered that little piece of advice.
Lauren Turner – 00:23:35:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:23:35:
And so how did your work evolve into birth art? Can you kind of describe it for us? What would it look like?
Lauren Turner – 00:23:42:
So I was trying to figure out how I could still be a part of our birth community. Like I said, I mentioned before, I didn’t have a village and childcare was really hard to find. So I just remember being on Pinterest and I was looking at the art and I was like, oh, like this is beautiful. And I went to the artist and the artist didn’t look like me. And so it kept happening. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I can buy some art. This is like years of not painting. Like I think it was about five years that I just didn’t paint. I didn’t want to paint. It was something that I felt in my heart because I felt like school was the only way to go. I said, if I can’t go to art college, I’m never going to be an artist. And I’m glad that I just picked up my paintbrushes because after wanting to be physically there, I said, how else can I be there? And I started painting birth art and I was able to find a way to support others without having to show up. And I, you know, I didn’t need childcare.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:47:
Because you could do it right there with your kids next to you?
Lauren Turner – 00:24:49:
Yep.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:51:
Okay. And what kinds of scenes do you paint with birth art?
Lauren Turner – 00:24:55:
Oh my gosh. Okay. So, so far I’ve done a lot of breastfeeding art. I did like a year of just focusing on that. There is so many pieces that I want to create. Like a lot of people like the birth of the universe. I do a lot of mothers and babies just together, but I really want to create more community-based art. But yeah, I have community-based art. I have lactation. I have birth art. I have postpartum art. I have pregnancy art. My work just focuses all around maternal health and parenting in general. Paintings that I want to create are more for fathers and birthing people. I feel like that’s what I’m lacking. And like, you know, I’m excited to get into it, but it’s so easy to be inspired by mothers and Black mothers because we’re so underrepresented when it comes to art.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:25:51:
Yeah, and if you go to your laurenjturnerfineart.com, you can see a gallery of all of the incredibly beautiful families, all the beautiful skin tones, and just the wealth of representation in your art. It’s so inspiring. I love you have paintings of water births, like you said, breastfeeding, babies in the NICU, dad’s baby wearing. It’s just a beautiful collection.
Lauren Turner – 00:26:19:
Thank you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:26:20:
Yeah. How do you see art? How can parents and birth workers process and celebrate their pregnancy and birth experiences with some kind of art process of their own?
Lauren Turner – 00:26:34:
There are so many things that you can do. I think the most simple thing that you can do is pick up a camera. I wish that took more pictures of myself when I was pregnant, when I was breastfeeding. And it doesn’t have to be something that you post on social media. It could just be something that you celebrate quietly. So taking photos, also belly casts. There’s a way for you to include your family, include your young children if you have older children. So many different things. Even playing music. It doesn’t have to be that you are a painter with skills or you are a writer with skills. Just trying to find a way to celebrate that special moment is a way you can celebrate art.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:20:
Yeah. Talk more about taking photos because I feel like a lot of moms in particular don’t take photos of themselves with their children. Can you talk a little bit about some of the things maybe you wish you’d gotten pictures of or you’re glad you have pictures of?
Lauren Turner – 00:27:35:
Yeah. So as I mentioned, Alexa, my midwife, she took that photo of me in my second birth experience. I want to plaster it everywhere because I’m like, look what I did. I actually did that. And not just because it was a home birth, but because of all the things that happened to make that image happen, like all the challenges that I had within that labor. I think it’s important to also recognize that mothers are not, and birthing people, they’re not getting photos of themselves because they’re usually the people who are taking the photos, right? Like you’re taking photos of like, you know, your partner, your husband, you’re taking the photos of the baby. You want to keep up with like every month is, you know, you can put your baby with a photo thing where it’s like three months, four months, like you’re going through the month stages with your baby. But you may not include yourself. So finding a way to include yourself. That would be really special. That’s something I wish I would have done.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:36:
Had yourself more in it.
Lauren Turner – 00:28:38:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:38:
Pictured instead of being the one. It reminds me of, um. When my mother-in-law passed, It was, you know, there were so many pictures that she had taken of her children and grandchildren. And there were some, of course, with her and her grandchildren, but way more that she took from behind the lens. Because she was always capturing them and not necessarily herself. And you could feel that. Like you could see what she was finding joy in, but I would have loved to see more of her face in the pictures.
Lauren Turner – 00:29:10:
And taking photos even when you don’t feel the best. You know, like I love having picture boxes. I just got my children these boxes from Michaels and they’re like white. You can get like picture boxes where it’s like stars or just different designs. But I got a white one for them so they can put their own craft on it. Like they can put their own maybe stickers, quotes. But in the box, they’ll have photos, physical photos and memories of things like that. Like we went to the zoo or maybe like a bracelet from their friend, you know. So I think those things are important just for us as well. Like we need a picture box, you know. Women, mothers, birthing people, we need one.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:29:55:
Right. I have something similar. Each of my kids has a box, like a Tupperware box, nothing fancy. Anything I want to keep, I put it in their box. And then, so the stack kind of will grow. And then I’ll every few months go through and kind of put it in the boxes. And then they love going back and looking through all their stuff from when they were younger.
Lauren Turner – 00:30:14:
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:30:15:
Yeah. I don’t know who the box will belong to at the end, but me or them. I think there is an element of guilt as a parent. Do you ever see this with celebrating your parenting experience, your child, is that like, for example, the baby book thing, it was kind of easy to do it with the first. But then once you have a second or third or fourth. Your life becomes so chaotic with trying to raise little children that you lose track of some of these like milestones and mementos. Do you have any advice or tips for that?
Lauren Turner – 00:30:54:
Same. I think also with the idea of the box, it could be a folder on your computer. Like,
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:03:
Okay.
Lauren Turner – 00:31:04:
My daughter is an artist. So I said, okay, if you want to save it, we can save it, but we only can save a certain amount. And you can take a photo of it and we can put it on a file on a computer. So I think that’s also a safe option. But what you said is exactly the baby book for my son is amazing. It’s like scrapbook paper, but my daughter, I don’t know what that is. I don’t know where that went.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:31:
It’s really interesting we forget like how art is kind of woven into parenting. I’m even thinking like if you celebrate the Christmas holiday and you have ornaments for your child that they made or, you know, made with them and, and the importance of that. And this may be oversharing, but my mother-in-law had a tradition of all of her grandchildren, you know, when they were babies, they would all received a couple ornaments from her to celebrate, you know, their first holidays. And by the time my third was born, she was beginning Alzheimer’s. And so she didn’t get to do that. And then I realized as my youngest was getting older that we didn’t have ornaments from her grandmother from, you know, those years. And as you take them out of the boxes, they start realizing. So one of the things I did, and it’s like one of my favorite things I’ve ever done as a parent, is I went and I found somebody on Etsy who could recreate some of those ornaments that she had gotten for the older kids.
Lauren Turner – 00:32:34:
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:34:
And ordered them and backdated them with the years.
Lauren Turner – 00:32:38:
I love it. I love that.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:40:
And it’s so meaningful to her, you know.
Lauren Turner – 00:32:43:
Yeah. And if you think of it like this, right, a lot of people feel like you have to do the art. But what if it’s organized? Like you just said that you put the effort into finding someone who could see your vision, right? The ornaments.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:01:
Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:33:01:
I think it’s also a way of being a creator, too. What do you think?
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:07:
Yeah, just even thinking about that. I love all these ideas. What about placental art? Because I know some people are like, what is that? Especially if you’re a first-time parent. But I saw you have some paintings of placentas on your gallery. Sometimes people are grossed out by the placenta, but I will never forget my obstetrician showing me my first child’s placenta and showing me how like, look, they call it the tree of life. And this is why. And like showing it to me. And I was like, wow, it actually is really beautiful. So talk more about that.
Lauren Turner – 00:33:41:
So there’s a lot of people who like use their placenta and they like do a print. I wish I had that experience. I never did that. But I think the placenta is so beautiful. I think it’s so interesting to paint. Like with the birth of the universe, that was like my favorite time. I’m like all excited. It was such a treat to paint. Jenny Saville, do you know that artist? Well, she just does a lot of gory art. And when I was in high school, like I really admired her art because she painted butchered pigs. This is, but yeah, I love. How it feels to capture that texture. You know, that’s what I love about painting the placenta because it’s such a unique texture, you know? But it’s a beautiful organ and it’s a powerful organ.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:34:
And so some people literally just take it and press it against paper to get like a stamp.
Lauren Turner – 00:34:40:
Yes, I wish I would have done that. I did placenta encapsulations for both of my children.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:46:
Yeah.
Lauren Turner – 00:34:47:
I consumed my placenta.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:50:
Yeah, we’ve talked about that at EBB. A lot of people see that as like a tradition they want to partake in. What about the fiber arts? Have you seen anybody do anything like special for pregnancy or birth with yarn, with weaving, with crocheting, knitting, that sort of thing?
Lauren Turner – 00:35:10:
I found MamAmor Dolls on Facebook and I just love how she incorporates the baby and the placenta. I think that’s so creative. I love following other artists, but she’s like my favorite right now.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:35:27:
And she has her birthing dolls can give birth vaginally or some of them by Cesarean. They have a little zipper you can open up to, you know, have the doll give birth. And they’re great for childbirth education classes, for teaching siblings. They have amazing hair, the yarn, and they’re all handmade. Yeah, by women who work from home in Canada, I believe. There’s also, I was thinking about. You know, I myself, I don’t crochet, I don’t knit, but some of the women in my community made the most beautiful blankets, you know, for my babies that are just still treasured. And sometimes we don’t think of that as art, but that is also a way of incorporating art into pregnancy and birth.
Lauren Turner – 00:36:12:
Absolutely. In our community, there is the crocheting doula and she is like creating pieces. She usually creates hats, but now she’s creating like art. And I think that’s so beautiful, like to see it on the wall versus like seeing it or, you know, using it in every day. And that’s a way to be creative too.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:36:34:
And thinking back to your birth stories with your midwives, I don’t know if any of them were knitting or crocheting, but I have seen that a lot with birth workers that they use fiber arts, crocheting or knitting while they’re waiting patiently at a birth.
Lauren Turner – 00:36:49:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:36:50:
Unique way to, like you said, incorporate the mindfulness and being present, but not feeling stressed.
Lauren Turner – 00:36:58:
Absolutely. I can see that.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:37:00:
Yeah. So, Lauren, your artwork has been featured in galleries and hospitals. Can you tell us how that came about?
Lauren Turner – 00:37:09:
Oh, how did it? You know, being someone who has started this work just for fun. I don’t know how, I’m sorry, am I too transparent? Because I don’t know. I’m over the moon. Like my paintings are in hospitals. They’re in birth centers. And I really want to get into the gallery spaces. I did a few gallery spaces, but I don’t know. It was just something that happened. It feels good too, right? When you’re doing the work and you’re so focused on doing the work and you’re not necessarily thinking of how do I get this in? It just came naturally. Sounds crazy. But I feel fortunate and blessed.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:37:54:
Yeah. Like you said, you were so focused on the art and then people, I guess, started noticing your art. And your pieces really resonate with and honor a wide range of families, particularly Black and Brown families. The beauty you bring to portraying those experiences. And you mentioned briefly lactation art. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of like honoring lactation in your artwork?
Lauren Turner – 00:38:21:
I think it definitely started with my journey with lactation. With my first, it felt like he was trying to rip my nipple off. So I prepared for the birth. I prepared for like before baby, but I didn’t prepare for after baby. I didn’t understand postpartum. I didn’t understand lactation. And so I started to go to a breastfeeding group. And that kept me sane because going to this breastfeeding group, I was able to be around other mothers, but I also was able to get lactation support for free through the hospital. So the hospital ran the lactation group and I was able to fix his latch. It felt like he was trying to bite my nipple off, but then I was able to get educated just because I went to these groups. And even though there was a lot of people coming and going, it just felt good to sit in space with other women who were going through similar situations. And it influenced my art. I have a few pieces with people in the community. The idea is community with the painting.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:28:
So those sound like they’d be perfect for like a lactation office or a pediatrician’s office or something like that. And what shirt are you wearing right now? Because I think you’re wearing some of your own.
Lauren Turner – 00:39:38:
Oh, yeah. Be your own advocate has a “bee.”
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:43:
Has a bee with a little bit of a honeycomb. And you also design t-shirts, so you have graphic design in addition to painting.
Lauren Turner – 00:39:52:
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:53:
What are some of your favorite t-shirts?
Lauren Turner – 00:39:55:
Ooh, so this is one of my favorite stickers. You deserve connections that make you feel safe and valued.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:40:02:
I love that.
Lauren Turner – 00:40:03:
And it’s also a shirt.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:40:04:
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Turner – 00:40:06:
I think it’s really important to create community when you are someone who is a mother, someone who is a parent, because you literally become a different person after having a baby.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:40:18:
Wow. So I think that’s a great way to like end is to encourage people to find connections in their community and to find inspiration through art. And I would encourage all our listeners to check out your magnets and stickers and follow you on what’s your social media.
Lauren Turner – 00:40:39:
So I have two businesses, two social medias, but everything is consistent. So birth nerds. And my fine art is Lauren J. Turner fine art.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:40:50:
Yeah. And I love how, I think t-shirts can be a way to find connections with other people and build community because if you’re wearing a t-shirt and people are like, you know, what is that? Or it’s a conversation starter. Like the one on your website, it says introverted, but willing to discuss maternal health. Here’s another one. Society has a distorted perception of what birth should look like. And then here’s a really nice one. A positive birth experience does not have to be unmedicated. It just needs to be from an informed place of positivity and not fear.
Lauren Turner – 00:41:23:
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:24:
Yes. Is there anything else you want to say before we go, Lauren?
Lauren Turner – 00:41:29:
No, I really appreciate doing this with you. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak my life and my truth. And thank you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:38:
Yeah. Thank you, Lauren, for your art and for all you’re doing for the birth world. We really appreciate you.
Lauren Turner – 00:41:44:
Thank you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:45:
This podcast episode was brought to you by the book, Babies are Not Pizzas: They’re Born, Not Delivered. Babies are Not Pizzas is a memoir that tells the story of how I navigated a broken healthcare system and uncovered how I could still receive evidence-based care. In this book, you’ll learn about the history of childbirth and midwifery, the evidence on a variety of birth topics, and how we can prevent preventable trauma in childbirth. Babies are Not Pizzas is available on Amazon as a Kindle, paperback, hardcover, and Audible book. Get your copy today and make sure to email me after you read it to let me know your thoughts.
