EBB 365 – Battling a Birth Injury with Leah Van Dale, Former WWE Wrestler and EBB Childbirth Class Graduate

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:00:

Hi everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with Leah Van Dale about navigating postpartum recovery when it’s complicated by a birth injury. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker, and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details. Hey everyone and welcome to today’s episode of the EBB Podcast. I am so excited for you to learn from our guest today who has a very important story to share with you about overcoming a birth injury. Before we jump into today’s episode I want to remind you that if you’d like to take a summer class with me, well the EBB summer lecture series is currently happening and there is still time to join us. We started the first class with the foundational session on, “What is evidence-based maternity care,” followed by last week’s session, “The evidence on maternity care providers” where we discussed provider roles, models of care and practical ways to strengthen team work and collaboration. There are four more live summer sessions coming up with me, covering everything from the research on birth settings and labor support, to childbirth education, birth planning, and informed consent. So if you join the EBB Pro membership now, you’ll gain access to the recordings of any of the summer series sessions that you’ve missed, and the sessions that happen during your 30-day membership period for the introductory fee of only $19. Plus, when you complete all 6 summer sessions, you’ll have the opportunity to earn up to 8 nursing contact hours and contact hours that can be used by physicians and nurse midwives. For this $19 introductory fee, you’ll also unlock access to our Pro Membership continuing education library, live monthly calls for midwives and doulas, a library of client friendly printables, and a supportive community where you can ask questions directly of me and the EBB research team. And, if you decide to stay after your first month, you’ll lock in a discounted rate for the membership plan that works best for you, whether that’s monthly, quarterly, or annually. So, are you signed up yet to take a summer school session with me? This special $19 offer is only available through July 22, so just head to ebb.com/summer to get all the details and join today for just $19.      

And now I’d like to introduce our featured guest for today’s podcast, Leah Van Dale.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:56:

Leah Van Dale is a mom of four, one biological baby and three bonus children, and a passionate advocate for women’s health. A former NFL cheerleader and NBA dancer, Leah spent 12 years as a superstar known as Carmella for WWE or World Wrestling Entertainment, where she was part of the groundbreaking women’s revolution and built a career on breaking barriers and being unapologetically herself. After navigating multiple miscarriages and the emotional toll that followed, Leah founded Snatch, a free no-filter platform that redefines how we talk about fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, sex, and everything in between. Through Snatch, Leah is on a mission to create the kind of honest, empowering space she wished she had when she needed it most. Leah is also a graduate of the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth class, and she’s here to share her birth story and her postpartum story with us. Leah, welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast.

Leah Van Dale – 00:01:52:

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:01:54:

Yeah, I’m so excited to talk with you and for our listeners to learn from you about your story. I was wondering if you could start off by telling us what inspired you to hire a doula for this birth, because I know in talking with you, that’s how you kind of were connected with Evidence Based Birth® was through your doula. So what was that decision-making process for you?

Leah Van Dale – 00:02:15:

Well, this was my first viable pregnancy. So I feel like I was kind of going into everything blind and I had done some research and I figured the best way to kind of navigate my pregnancy and birth journey would be through a doula. And I’m just so grateful that I was connected with her name is Lisa Byerly. She’s the best, the best, the best. I’m so grateful for her. I’m located in Pittsburgh. So she was here locally and I’m just so grateful that I found her. She was the first doula I chatted with and we just had an instant connection. I knew she was right for me. And I think that’s super important when hiring a doula, you have to make sure you have like feel connected. Like you guys are on the same page. And I just felt like everything that I chatted with her about aligned with my beliefs and her beliefs. And yeah, it just, everything just kind of snowballed from there. So I’m really grateful for her.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:08:

Yeah. And it’s good that you found someone you were in such alignment with, because I know it had been a difficult journey for you to get to the point where you could focus on giving birth. Can you tell us just a little bit about like what your journey was up until that point?

Leah Van Dale – 00:03:20:

Sure. So I got pregnant. My husband and I were like, yeah, let’s just, let’s try it. He has three kids. Um, and it just kind of felt like the time was right. So we tried, I got pregnant right away. I was like, wow, this is amazing. You know, this is great. I think it was on a Monday. I went in for blood work. I was confirmed that I was pregnant. And by that Friday, I had already like miscarried. So what was called a chemical pregnancy. So because I knew we were trying, like if we didn’t try, I wouldn’t have maybe taken a test and known that.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:51:

Right. You would have just thought you were a few days late.

Leah Van Dale – 00:03:53:

Yeah. I thought I was a few days late, but those five days that I knew I was pregnant, I was, I mean, elated. I was so excited and just like over the moon. And then to know that that quickly, it was taken away. That was just really, I was so unprepared for that. I feel like at least that I knew talked about miscarriages or miscarrying or anything like that. So I just felt super alone. Like maybe I did something wrong. What could I have done differently? And then I fell pregnant again shortly after that. I think it was honestly my next cycle or the cycle after that. And I was like, okay, let’s try not to get too excited here because obviously I just had the miscarriage. And so with that, I had like shortly after getting pregnant, I started bleeding. So I just assumed that was my period and that happened again. And then come to find out a few weeks later, I was testing for ovulation and like my strips were so crazy that so dark and I was so confused by it. I’m like, let me just take a pregnancy test just to like see what’s happening here. And it said pregnant. So come to find out the bleeding that I thought was my period was actually, I have no idea what, I don’t know what it was from, but I was actually diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy, which is crazy. Something I didn’t know anything about. And it’s just, it’s just wild that women deal with all of these things that again, were so foreign to me. I was not educated on it. I had no idea. You think you try to get pregnant and you get pregnant and you have a baby. That’s just what I thought. And then I realized there’s so much in between that women go through and that people don’t talk about. And yeah, that was my, my journey.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:38:

And so this was your third pregnancy.

Leah Van Dale – 00:05:41:

This was my third pregnancy.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:42:

Yeah. And then we were able to connect and you got enrolled in the Evidence Based Birth® class. What was your experience like learning the information from that class?

Leah Van Dale – 00:05:50:

It was great. So I obviously find you guys through my doula. So I was grateful that she had recommended you guys. And I had chatted with Lisa a little bit about birth and what to expect. So she had kind of educated me a little bit, but obviously this class went way more in depth. And I feel like I’ve really learned so much. And I’m really grateful that I took the class because I was able to come up with like all of my preferences for what I wanted when I gave birth and just different. Things to expect and like, okay, this is what I want to do. I don’t want to push like this. I want to push like this. And then I want to, you know, I wanted to do the delayed cord clamping and just different things like that, that I feel like I was able to really educate myself on and you guys educated me on and, um, yeah, come up with my birth plan. So for me, I felt really confident going into labor and delivery.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:06:41:

So you had a birth plan, you had a doula, you had all your ducks in a row. And I know you were hoping for an unmedicated birth and you’re an athlete and a performer. And so you wanted to really try as have, you know, as smooth a birth is possible. How were you feeling emotionally and physically like leading up to the birth itself?

Leah Van Dale – 00:07:03:

I honestly felt so prepared. I was excited. I couldn’t wait for labor and delivery. As you said, as an athlete, I mean, I was a professional wrestler for 12 years, so I got my butt kicked for a living. So I was like, oh, this is going to be nothing. It’s going to be a walk in the park. And I was just really excited. And again, I had my plan. I thought I knew what to expect. And then I was mentally, I was feeling excited and ready. And it just kind of all, went the opposite way that I had anticipated.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:07:36:

Yeah. So walk us through your birth story. Like how did it begin?

Leah Van Dale – 00:07:39:

So I woke up on a Monday, started having contractions and I had texted Lisa and let her know. And she’s like, okay, start timing them when they get more regular, when they get closer to maybe five minutes apart, we’ll start chatting about what our next plan is. And I spent that whole day just normal. I had appointments. I went to the acupuncturist. He was like sticking with needles and they were like popping out of me. They couldn’t even stay in because my body was contracting so much. And I was just like business as usual. My husband and I walked maybe like a mile and a half because we used to live in the city in Pittsburgh. And we walked to go grab some lunch. And I was like doing my curb walking. I was feeling great. The contractions were pretty steady, but there weren’t anything that I couldn’t, you know, breathe through. Or like, it just felt normal. I felt fine. And then went to bed that night. And around like 10 o’clock, I was like, okay, we’re getting a little bit more intense here. So that’s when Lisa was, my husband called her to come to our house. And then by the time she was like on her way, I’m like, meet us at the hospital. This is unbearable. Like they just started getting closer together and a lot more intense. And then we got to the hospital and I was only three centimeters. But they were like, you’re, you can stay. Like, we’re going to have a room for you. Like, and so I just, for me, the pain was so intense, even though I was like breathing through it. I was doing all of the techniques. I was like, there’s no way I could feel this pain and be at home. I felt like being in that, like in the birth center, I would feel safer, especially this is my first baby. I just wanted to make sure everything was going to be good. And then I guess, long story short, my labor stalled. I was at six centimeters for two days.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:20:

So this is in the hospital or?

Leah Van Dale – 00:09:22:

Yes, in the hospital.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:24:

Okay. In the hospital.

Leah Van Dale – 00:09:25:

So I got there Monday evening and-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:28:

And then everything stopped at some point.

Leah Van Dale – 00:09:30:

Everything stopped. Yes. Because I was in so much pain, I did opt for the epidural. And I was so upset with that choice at the time because I knew I wanted to try to have a natural birth, but I just felt like because it wasn’t progressing, because I was feeling so much pain, there’s no way I could have sustained that without some sort of break. So I had to make the decision and I’m now looking back grateful that I did that because there’s no way I would have been able to make it through without it. And so once I had the epidural, I was able to finally breathe a little bit. And just kind of like, be in a mental state of how are we going to deal with this? What are my options? What am I looking like? Again, I was stuck at six centimeters for a long time. So then they did have to start me on Pitocin, which is another thing I did not want to take. I was like on my birth plan, no way. I’m not taking Pitocin. But unfortunately, like. One thing I learned from all of this is that you have to kind of expect the unexpected. And there’s nothing wrong with getting an epidural. There’s nothing wrong with the Pitocin if it’s something that… in the moment you need. And so I had the Pitocin and finally that was helping. But again, it wasn’t until Wednesday afternoon that I was finally at 10 centimeters. And like right before that, I came to the decision. Because, I was with the midwives, they weren’t really forcing me one way or another to go with C-section, which I was very grateful for. Because I wanted to have a natural birth. I’m like, everything up to this point has been so out of my control. Please, I just want to have a natural birth. So they were very supportive of that. And then it was about, like I said, noon on Wednesday. And I was like, okay, I guess we have to do the C-section. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I just felt it was the last thing.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:17:

It just wasn’t what you were planning on or wanted.

Leah Van Dale – 00:11:19:

It was the last thing on my plan that I felt like, okay, let me just hold on to this. But I said, okay, we’ll do the C-section. And then they checked me one last time. They’re like, oh, you’re ready to go. I was like, hallelujah. So ready to go and then started pushing. And I was pushing for probably about two and a half hours. It was so long.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:39:

And I want to pause just a second to recognize the fact that you had been in labor since when?

Leah Van Dale – 00:11:45:

Monday morning.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:46:

Monday morning. And had you gotten any sleep on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday?

Leah Van Dale – 00:11:51:

Literally zero sleep. I just was so anxious. Again, was starting the Pitocin. One thing after another.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:57:

Had your doula gone home to get sleep?

Leah Van Dale – 00:11:59:

She did. She had to tag out to someone else. And someone else came in to relieve her, which I was grateful for.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:06:

And your husband, was he going on?

Leah Van Dale – 00:12:08:

I sent him home a few times because he was just stressing me out more. Because he’s like, what’s happening? And so I’m like, you go home. And my mom stepped in. And so my mom was the one that stayed with me the entire time. From Monday night until I gave birth. Because moms are just… I could not have gotten through that without her. So she stayed with me the entire time. And yeah, they were all just kind of like tag-teaming in and out, other than my mom.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:34:

And other than you.

Leah Van Dale – 00:12:36:

Other than me, yes. So I did not sleep. And that was so difficult. And I also, like not to make it too graphic, I was vomiting every three minutes for almost 48 hours. It was just something that I was not expecting. I don’t know why. I guess it was just my body reacting. So it just was-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:56:

So you were depleted by Wednesday.

Leah Van Dale – 00:12:58:

Come Wednesday when they were like, another thing I wanted to make sure I didn’t push until he was, you know, I think it’s what at a, is it a minus five?

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:07:

Or just a positive station.

Leah Van Dale – 00:13:11:

Yes. I wanted to wait until he was, that was again on my plan. And they were like, well, he’s not quite in position, but if you could start to push, it might get him down to where you need to be. And I was like, okay, let me try that. So I tried and they’re like, oh, this is working. This is great. Let’s keep going. In that moment, I’m like, wait, I’m just pushing now, like for however long till he comes out. And I just wasn’t mentally prepared for that. I don’t think either. So I started pushing around noon and he wasn’t born until 2:32 in the afternoon. So again, off of no sleep and not eating, and vomiting, and it was just-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:45:

It sounds like by that point you were probably in a bit of a daze like, or?

Leah Van Dale – 00:13:49:

Totally, well by the time he came, he wasn’t breathing they because he was in the birth canal for so long. It took almost four minutes for them to sort of, get him to where he needed to be. He was blue, and that was traumatic to see, because I had just been through all of this. And I was like, just give me my baby. And I couldn’t even hold him right away because they were-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:11:

Working on him.

Leah Van Dale – 00:14:12:

Working on him. And finally, when they gave him to me, I was just like. Like it just, it all was worth it. That rest of that day, I feel like I was in such a fog. I don’t even really know. Like everyone is saying like, oh, isn’t like when you first get him and you get, it’s just you and him in the hospital. I’m like, I don’t remember. I truly feel like I started out on such depletion that I hate that for me. Like I hate that I was not able to just be in it and hold him and love on him and just enjoy it because I was so defeated physically and mentally.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:52:

Reminds me of how I felt after my first birth. Like I’d been run over by a truck is how.

Leah Van Dale – 00:14:56:

Yes. That makes so much sense. I can’t relate to that.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:15:00:

Every muscle in my body hurt from for so long. And yeah. I mean, just even recently I was on a trip and, you know, had to deal with flight delays and weather issues. And you have this like really super long day of travel and you don’t get to bed till 4 a.m.. And then for the next two days, you just feel like, you can’t do anything. But if you have a long, difficult birth, it’s worse than that.

Leah Van Dale – 00:15:25:

Totally. Totally. And then you’re dealing with the physical aspect of it all, hormonal and throw all that into the mix and forget it.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:15:34:

Exactly. Yeah. So what do you kind of remember next?

Leah Van Dale – 00:15:39:

So I remember once he was out and they had said, like, you have to go to the bathroom to be able to like get moved into a different room and be settled for the night. And I remember trying to stand up and I fell over. And I was like, this is weird. Because my foot the entire time when I was in pushing, shortly after I was pushing, I’m like, something feels wrong with my foot. Like my right foot just felt super numb. And they’re like, oh, it’s just probably because of the epidural. I was like, okay. And at this point, my legs were back. I felt fine. I felt my back was good. My left leg felt great. I’m like, so why is it my right foot just felt off? Like I almost fell into the shower after I gave birth. And like no one was in the bathroom with me because the nurse like shut the door. And I was, I scared myself that I literally fell. And then I just didn’t think anything of it. I told them and they said, it’s fine. It’s just that epidural.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:27:

It still needs to wear off or something.

Leah Van Dale – 00:16:29:

Yeah, exactly. So then we ended up getting to our room that we were settled in that night. My husband got me Jimmy John’s sub. I was so excited to have an Italian sub. I hadn’t had deli meat my entire pregnancy. So I like remember eating that. And then that’s honestly the last thing I remember. I just like fell asleep. And it was to the point where my son kept like crying in the middle of the night, obviously. And my husband had to keep getting up and grabbing him. And he was like, did you not hear him? I was like, no. And he’s literally right next to me. I was just so exhausted that I couldn’t even hear my newborn baby crying literally right next to my head. So I’m grateful my husband was there to be able to like help him. And he would bring him to me because I was breastfeeding and all of that. But I just remember, feeling I was in such a dream.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:17:20:

And then you went home. And what happened next?

Leah Van Dale – 00:17:25:

So the next day, so I had him on a Wednesday by Thursday. I’m like, can we go home. I’ve been here for like four days because normally they have you stay. Two nights, I guess, was their policy because I gave birth afternoon or something. And I was like, please, just let me go home. I just feel like I’ve been here for so long. So finally they got us home. We got back home. And trying to like go up and down the stairs. My husband had to stand behind me because again, my foot was still dragging. It was just bizarre. And I just felt like something’s not right. I didn’t have the mental capacity to deal with problems. Like I just had a baby. My son wasn’t latching. I was trying to figure out, I had a lactation consultant come over. I was just so focused on making sure he was good that I just was not thinking about myself at all. As I’m sure most moms are when they’re postpartum. I had like a two week checkup virtually. And I told them that my foot was still like, I couldn’t lift my front part of my foot off the floor. So it was like, my foot was dragging anywhere I went. Like if you tried to wear like slippers or slip on any shoes, they would just like fall off my foot. Cause I had no way of lifting my foot up. So they were like, again, this happens sometimes to some women. It could be nerve damage. And I was like, nerve damage? Like that was the first I heard of that. Everyone told me it was from the epidural. And they said sometimes from pushing, like when your legs are up, there’s a nerve that it could maybe be pinched and sort of hurt.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:50:

So tell us about the pushing then. Like what position were you pushing in? Like, did they keep you in the same position the whole time? What was going on?

Leah Van Dale – 00:18:57:

So I was adamant prior to pushing that I did not want to push on my back. Again, everything I learned from you guys and from my doula, I didn’t want to worry about tearing. I just felt like to me mentally, like pushing on all fours, I was like, that’s how I wanted to go about it. And then when I was trying to push, I was like, no way I’m on my back. I’m just staying here. To me, that felt the most comfortable in that moment. And even my doula, she’s like, okay, do you want to try to switch it up? And I said, nope, do not move me for some reason, just mentally. I couldn’t even think about trying to move my body when I was in the middle of pushing. I just felt like he was there. There’s so much pressure. Like I just-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:19:37:

You were kind of already in that position.

Leah Van Dale – 00:19:39:

Yeah. Don’t move me. Don’t talk to me. Don’t touch me. Let me just push. And that’s just kind of the mindset that I had.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:19:47:

Did they have your feet in stirrups or were they holding your legs up?

Leah Van Dale – 00:19:50:

There was a nurse holding one leg and then my husband was holding the other.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:19:54:

Okay. Okay. So they were kind of holding your legs the whole time.

Leah Van Dale – 00:19:57:

They were holding my legs.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:19:58:

Did you get breaks in between contractions where they let you-

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:02:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:02:

Okay. And they put your legs down?

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:04:

Yep. And then there were a few times where I was just like, okay, I need some like five minutes. Let me just sit for a few or lay here for a few minutes. But majority of the two and a half hours, I was pushing every contraction.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:17:

Okay. On your back with your legs held up with, I’m guessing your feet kind of pushed.

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:22:

Yes. Like I was like less than a 90 degree angle. It was probably like 45 degree angle. My legs were just pushed back.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:29:

Okay. Okay.

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:31:

That makes sense.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:32:

Yeah. So when did you like see somebody who was able to tell you what was going on?

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:37:

So basically it was honestly such a long journey because then they told me, okay, give it between eight to 10 weeks. At this point, I was maybe 16 weeks. I called the midwives and I’m like, hey, it’s not getting better. What should I do?

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:49:

This is four months after you gave birth?

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:52:

Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:52:

You were still having that foot drag problem.

Leah Van Dale – 00:20:55:

Yeah. It was a little bit better. I think I figured out how to walk at that point, but I honestly had considered getting a cane. I was like, I don’t know.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:21:02:

You were like compensating, probably using other muscles.

Leah Van Dale – 00:21:04:

Exactly. Using the hip and really lifting in different ways. So I figured out how to get around and I was okay, but it was still really debilitating. And finally they said, okay, well, you have to go to maybe your primary care, see them, and then they can figure out what’s happening. So my doctor sent me for an MRI. And I wrestled for 12 years. So there’s no secret that my back and my spine is kind of messed up from wrestling for so long. So they had seen a couple of slipped discs in my low back. And they said, oh, that’s what’s causing the nerve damage in your foot. It’s because it’s related to, I think it was like the L5 or something in my low back. I said, okay. So they sent me to physical therapy. I was going to physical therapy. It’s still not getting better. And this was, I mean, I gave birth in November. This is the following June. I was in physical therapy, still kind of working on it. And it still wasn’t getting better. So long story short, I finally see a spine specialist and she looked at my MRIs and she’s like, yeah, you do have a bulging disc, but it would be affecting your left foot, not your right. So finally, someone was like looking at it and knew what they were talking about and realized that this was not at all. There was no correlation. So I finally went to get an EMG. On my leg. There’s, it’s like so crazy that you think of having a baby and you’re just like, you know, keeping your baby alive.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:27:

It’s an electromyogram that measures the electrical activity of your muscles and nerves. Correct. Okay. Wow. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard it in that postpartum.

Leah Van Dale – 00:22:37:

I could have never in my life told you what that stood for. But come to find out, long story short, I had what’s called deep fibular nerve damage. So because my knee was bent for so long, there was so much compression behind my right knee that it damaged a nerve that goes down to control the top of my foot. And I didn’t get that diagnosis until January of this year. So it took me 13 months to finally get an answer because nobody could tell me. And if I hadn’t continued to push and ask questions and demand more, they would have just, oh, what can you do? Just get better. It was so frustrating that dealing with all of this the entire time of being postpartum, being a new mom, figuring out what-

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:23:26:

You have to say, how did you handle it all? You know, you raising a baby, you have your three bonus children. You’re, I’m assuming, hoping you can get back to your career.

Leah Van Dale – 00:23:35:

Exactly. And that was my whole goal was to go back to work. When I got pregnant, I still had a year left on my contract with WWE. So I was really excited to go back. And then I truly, I mean, in my heart feel, and like they didn’t come out and say this, but that this is why I didn’t go back to WWE because they did reinstate my contract because I was out for so long. So my contract was reinstated while I was postpartum. And I obviously was not able to work. I couldn’t wrestle. I could barely work out, never mind wrestle. So they had just to let my contract expire, unfortunately. And it was just like, it was such a bummer. I was really upset because I felt like I wanted to be able to give birth and then go back and show women. I mean, there’s been several women who have had babies and back to work.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:19:

Yeah. One of them too. Other professional athletes.

Leah Van Dale – 00:24:22:

Yeah. Yeah. So it’s unfortunate that that was my journey, but I truly feel like everything happens for a reason. And if that didn’t happen, I’m currently pregnant again. So I feel like if that didn’t happen, I would be at work. I wouldn’t be pregnant. So I feel like this baby’s meant to be here and it just kind of all works out the way it’s supposed to. It was just very bumpy road.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:43:

Wow. That is a bumpy road. How did it impact you like emotionally?

Leah Van Dale – 00:24:49:

Emotionally, it was definitely difficult because I’m an athlete. For me, I’m able to kind of. Do whatever I want physically. And I was really excited like postpartum to just get back into the swing of things and feel good and get like, for me working out is, it’s so good for my mental health. So to not be able to get back into the physicality of things, that was really hard for me and to just feel kind of out of control of my own body, that was hard. And I just kind of felt like my road to pregnancy was difficult. And then knock on wood, I’m so grateful my pregnancy was so healthy and great and easy. And then the labor and delivery was so difficult. And then postpartum was so difficult. And I just kind of felt like I was getting hit from all angles. And it was hard. And even looking back, I’m like, wow, I can’t believe I, how did I get through all that with so much being kind of thrown at me. But at the end of the day, it makes, it made me stronger. It made my marriage stronger. I feel like because of being home with the injury, I was able to be so present with my son. If that didn’t happen, maybe I would have gone back to work a lot sooner. So I feel like, you can’t get back time. So I was able to like see his first steps and hear his first words and be home with him for all of that. And that was something that was really weighing on me, knowing that I would have to go back to work eventually or thinking I was going to have to go back. I was really worried about missing all of those firsts. So it really did end up being the biggest blessing.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:26:21:

Were there, you’re talking about your mindset, which is really inspirational. Were there any resources or people that helped you through this difficult time?

Leah Van Dale – 00:26:30:

My family was very, very supportive. My husband, my mom, my sister, my friends. I feel like that’s when I kind of poured myself into Snatch, a company that I had started, which was for women. And that kind of helped me shift my focus. So I wasn’t focusing so much on the injury and dealing with like postpartum depression and all of the things that you’re dealing with. I’m like, okay, no, I’m focusing on this. I’m trying to help other women. How can I use my story to shift everything? And that’s to me, I just kind of poured myself into Snatch. And that truly helped me a lot.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:09:

And I could tell like, you know, following your work after your birth, you were always open about what you were going through. And it was really, I think, helpful for other women and moms to see, you know, your journey and you shared it with them.

Leah Van Dale – 00:27:23:

I think that’s so important because especially with social media, everyone just shows their highlight reel. And I know I’d be watching other women after they had their babies. I’m like, oh my gosh, like they already look so amazing. How do they, how does, will my body look like that when, after I have my son and how do they have time to do their makeup? How do they have a clean home? And like, just the things that you. Compare on social media, it’s… So not real. Like none of it is real. Like if you see some new mom with her baby looking beautiful and a clean home and she has her makeup done and she’s looking great and it’s like good for her. I mean, that’s great, but it’s so not real. Yeah. Well, she’s probably taking that one picture and then she’s shutting off her phone and she’s walking away and she’s crying about this or that, or she’s fighting with her husband or, or, you know what I mean? There’s just, it’s just not realistic. Like I like to show some of my highlight reel, but at the same time, I think it’s so important. I feel like it’s my duty having a platform to show the real side of motherhood as well.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:26:

And to kind of de-stigmatize some of the things you’ve been through, like miscarriage, chemical pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy, birth injuries, postpartum depression.

Leah Van Dale – 00:28:36:

For sure.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:37:

Yeah. Tell us more about Snatch then. So our listeners, what is it? What are your hopes for that?

Leah Van Dale – 00:28:45:

Yeah. So I guess I really had no expectations when I first created it. I knew that when I had my miscarriages and I went public with them, that it helped a lot of women. Women reached out to me, friends that I had that had a miscarriage that didn’t tell anyone reached out to me. And I thought, well, okay, there’s something here. What can I do to what’s sharing more about this? So I just wasn’t sure what that was. And then throughout my pregnancy with my son, I was like, just getting a little more ideas. And finally towards the end of my pregnancy, I’m like, Snatch, this is what it is. First, it was just a newsletter. And we had a platform for women to talk about all of these things and confide in one another. That’s not in a public space like Instagram or something like that. And basically it’s a platform. Now we have an app where women ask questions with each other and confide in one another, like at any point in their life, whether it’s you’re trying to get pregnant or you are pregnant or you’re postpartum or you’re a mom, wherever you’re at in your journey, we have women in this app talking about all of these things. And we also have experts educating women on a lot of these things. We do live Zooms with IVF experts or a postpartum doula or a mental health expert, because I just find it to be… So wild that we are so uninformed about our own bodies, our own minds when it comes to women’s health in general. So I just was really trying to figure out how to do that. And that’s where I came up with Snatch. And now we actually have a prenatal workout program that’s available to our members. And then coming out next month, we have our first micro course, which is educating women on the first 30 days home with their newborn. So everything that you need to know in those first 30 days about sleep, about feeding, about mental health, it’ll be in this condensed little course where you’re not having to spend, you know, hours as a new mom, we don’t really have a lot of time. So it just kind of gives you everything that you need to know about those first 30 days home with your newborn.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:30:51:

So how can people find it then? What’s the website?

Leah Van Dale – 00:30:54:

Well, it’s Snatch, S-N-A-T-C-H dot co C-O, or you can also find on Instagram @snatchfor F-O-R her, and you can find all the information there.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:06:

Okay. And what is it like to join?

Leah Van Dale – 00:31:08:

It’s called Snatch Chat. That’s our app and it’s completely free. The only thing that you have to pay for is if you wanted to buy the workout program, it’s $67 for a six-week course. We don’t have the pricing yet for our micro course, but it will be very affordable, less than 50 bucks. So that’s my whole goal with all of it to make it super attainable and super convenient. For me about making money, it’s about spreading the word and educating women and just being in all of this together.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:36:

That’s amazing. So the community part is free.

Leah Van Dale – 00:31:39:

Completely free.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:39:

Yeah.

Leah Van Dale – 00:31:40:

You have access to old programs. So old Zoom calls, anything that we’ve done in the past, you will have access to that once you join Snatch Chat. And again, completely free. All you have to do is put in your email and you have to be a woman because I just want women to feel safe and feel comfortable in there and feel like when they’re talking about their body, they don’t have to worry about anyone judging them.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:59:

Okay. And what is the app called then in the app store?

Leah Van Dale – 00:32:02:

So it’s Mighty Networks is the app, but it’s our own program on Mighty Networks.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:06:

Okay.

Leah Van Dale – 00:32:07:

So if you just go to our website, you can get all the information there.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:10:

Okay. All right. So snatch.co Leah, I know you said you’re pregnant again. So congratulations. You know, reflecting back on your journey, and it’s been a long one. What’s one more thing you wish more people knew? Or talked about openly.

Leah Van Dale – 00:32:28:

About pregnancy or?

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:29:

For pregnancy birth postpartum any of those.

Leah Van Dale – 00:32:32:

That it’s all so temporary. I feel like, for me my first trimester, I’m well into my second trimester right now, and I still feel like I’m seven weeks pregnant. I’m like just nothing makes me feel good other than a big bowl of pasta or pizza. And it’s also temporary, and knowing that postpartum, it’s so temporary labor and delivery. That’s all I kept telling myself the entire time, like before I got the epidural or even when I was in the hospital for three days, I was like eventually I’m going to be sitting at home on my couch watching Real Housewives again, and it’s all going to be okay.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:08:

Yeah. I’ll just have a baby on my chest.

Leah Van Dale – 00:33:10:

Yes, exactly. Baby on my chest and everything will be good. So I just think having that mindset, knowing that it’s also temporary, but also the good is so temporary too, right? So like it’s this, you know, give and take with it. So just trying to enjoy whatever moment you’re in, whether it’s good or bad, knowing eventually it will change.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:33:

It sounds like you learned a lot about being present.

Leah Van Dale – 00:33:36:

Yes, for sure.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:38:

Yeah. And how is your foot now? Have you been able to find anything that helps?

Leah Van Dale – 00:33:43:

I feel like everyday life, I feel completely normal. I feel fine. No issues. I think if I were to have to go back to wrestle, I would not feel comfortable or safe doing that because someone else’s life is in my hands when I’m wrestling in that ring. So I don’t feel comfortable, at that level, but everyday life I feel fine I can kind of jog I can work out my balance is a lot better so especially now that I don’t have that added pressure of worrying about having to worry about going back to work, I’m just kind of living in the moment.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:15:

Yeah. And do you have any advice or words of encouragement for anyone who’s listening, who’s preparing for birth right now? You know, especially those who are anxious about the unknowns or things that might happen.

Leah Van Dale – 00:34:30:

I think just knowing that it will go the way it’s supposed to. And I kind of just kept telling myself that as well, because again, I wasn’t prepared mentally. I thought I was, but I wasn’t. We went into the birth being like, this is going to be great. I know what I want, blah, blah, blah. But it just, it didn’t go the way I wanted it to. And that’s okay. It’s okay that it didn’t. I think just kind of surrendering and trying to let it out of your control and know that it is out of your control. Like the only thing you can control is how you react to it because your body knows what to do. It does know what to do. And that was something that I learned throughout my labor and delivery that no matter what I keep telling myself mentally, my body is going to do what it does. I mean, that’s what my doula kept telling me as well. And I, that really stuck with me. Like women have been doing it for years and years and years. So I just kind of think if you let your body do what it’s supposed to do. You’ll be fine no matter what you’re going to be.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:35:30:

Yeah. And getting support though, too, because like you experienced, sometimes interventions are needed, right?

Leah Van Dale – 00:35:37:

Totally.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:35:38:

More support is needed, whether in the form of people or medications or things.

Leah Van Dale – 00:35:44:

Yeah. To know that it’s okay if it doesn’t go according to plan. I’m such a type A person now, and this is what I want. This is how it’s going to be. This is how it has to be. And at the end of the day, it’s okay to a.) change your mind; b.) for it to not go the way you wanted it. And it’s okay to be upset about that afterwards. I think I was feeling guilty for being like, oh, it didn’t go this way. Like, why did it go like this? And I was going to a therapist postpartum because I felt like it was really important to make sure I talked through that because it was such a traumatic experience. And she just kept reminding me, it’s okay that you’re upset about it. It’s okay that it didn’t go your way. And both things can be true. You can be grateful that you are healthy and that you have a healthy baby. And you can be upset that it didn’t go according to plan.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:36:30:

Yeah. I think too, your story is important. We have a lot of birth professionals who listen to this, labor and delivery nurses, midwives, doulas. And, you know, we talk about the evidence on birthing positions, which you can access at ebbirth.com/birthingpositions. And we don’t really emphasize the nerve injury ramifications of spending like your whole pushing period in one position. I think that’s important for people to know. You know, I think if you had been educated, hey, I know you really want to stay on your back, but it’s really important for your muscles and nerves that we give you a break in a different position. Right. And I think, you know, having more information might’ve led you to make a different decision, you know?

Leah Van Dale – 00:37:16:

And that’s something that going into this next birth, when I first met with my midwife, I was like, hey, this is a concern of mine. And I just want to make sure everyone’s aware of it. Cause there are several midwives that rotate in and out. I just want to make sure everyone knows that I need to make sure that my leg is protected and that I’m not stuck in a position for too long this time around, because I just don’t want that to happen. And even hopefully if anyone listening can hear that and realize, Oh wait, like, I just want to make sure, and I don’t want to scare anyone. I don’t want anyone like, terrified of pushing on their back. But again, because I was in that position for so long, that’s what led to that result.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:37:55:

Right. And you’re putting a lot of effort and pressure when you were in that position. So.

Leah Van Dale – 00:38:02:

And I don’t want to blame my husband, but it was the leg that he was holding. So the nurse went afterwards, the doctor was like, wait, so who was holding that leg? I was like, my husband, she’s like, oh, I’m like, so you’re saying it’s his fault. Well, no, we joke around.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:38:18:

No, but I do think, you know, I’m always a big believer in learning from other people’s stories, you know, like you can’t change what happened to you, but you can share your story. You can’t prevent every bad thing from happening, but you can learn some lessons. And I think it’s a good lesson. I mean, I think it’s beautiful that they were supporting you and your wishes to remain on your back. And I have had many people tell me that’s where I felt best and most comfortable. But I think having information about the importance of switching from time to time to give your nerves, your legs, your muscles, your body a break is also important.

Leah Van Dale – 00:38:54:

For sure.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:38:55:

Yeah. So I think it’s a good thing that other people can hopefully learn from your story. In addition to everything else that you’re teaching at Snatch and follow you on Instagram as well.

Leah Van Dale – 00:39:07:

Yes, please follow me. I would love that.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:09:

Yeah, so check out Leah. It’s @theleahvandale. And we’ll link to all these resources in the show notes. So Leah, we can’t thank you enough for everything you’re doing to really make a difference in the world and for making this resource for families. So we appreciate you.

Leah Van Dale – 00:39:25:

I appreciate you. I am so grateful for your resources and for everything I learned from you guys. So it goes both ways.

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:36:

Today’s podcast episode was brought to you by the online workshops for birth professionals taught by Evidence Based Birth® Instructors. We have an amazing group of EBB Instructors from around the world who can provide you with live, interactive, continuing education workshops that are fully online. We designed Savvy Birth Pro workshops to help birth professionals who are feeling stressed by the limitations of the healthcare system. Our instructors also teach the popular Comfort Measures for Birth Professionals and Labor and Delivery Nurses Workshop. If you are a nurse or birth professional who wants instruction in massage, upright birthing positions, acupressure for pain relief, and more, you will love the Comfort Measures Workshop. Visit ebbirth.com/events to find a list of upcoming online workshops.