EBB 366 – Practical Ways of Preparing for Postpartum with Sophie Walker, Author and Host of the Australian Birth Stories Podcast

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:00:

Hi everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with Sophie Walker about planning for postpartum and the benefits and challenges of the Australian birth system. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker, and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details. Hi, everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. Today, I’m so excited for us to talk with Sophie Walker. Sophie is the founder of Australian Birth Stories, a platform dedicated to sharing diverse pregnancy and birth experiences. Her incredible podcast of the same name has garnered more than 18 million downloads, helped thousands of expectant parents across Australia prepare for their own journeys into parenthood. After experiencing significant physical and emotional trauma following her first birth, Sophie’s redemptive second birth experience inspired her to create a resource for other women who are navigating pregnancy and birth. With a master’s in public health and personal experience of both challenging and empowering births, Sophie brings a unique perspective to her work advocating for informed birth preparation. Sophie is also the author of the bestselling book, The Complete Australian Guide to Pregnancy and Birth, which has sold more than 30,000 copies and become an essential resource for expecting families across Australia. Her highly anticipated follow-up, The Complete Guide to Postpartum, is a book scheduled for release in July of 2025. Sophie’s work is guided by research showing that positive birth experiences depend on us having the opportunity to make informed decisions and having those decisions respected by care providers. Her podcast bridges the gap between clinical information and lived experience, providing us with knowledge and confidence to actively prepare for birth and postpartum. When not recording episodes or writing books, Sophie enjoys spending time with her family, advocating for improved maternity care, and connecting with the vibrant community of women she has brought together through her work. Sophie, welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:02:28:

Well, thanks so much for having me, Rebecca.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:02:31:

It’s always fun to have an experienced podcaster join me because I know this is what you do for your job. And I really want to hear, you know, your journey about what led you to start the Australian Birth Stories Podcast, which is like one of the top platforms worldwide for listening to birth stories. So tell us about how you got there.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:02:51:

Yeah, so I was originally working in cancer research when I fell pregnant the first time. So working in women’s health and interviewing women came naturally to me and sort of working in that medical field. But after my first birth, which was in a nutshell, 36 hours, I had the cascade of interventions. I got to five centimeters after about 24 hours and I hadn’t progressed for many hours. Despite having my waters broken, we then moved to induction medication and we use different terms over here, so slightly different, but we call it Pitocin. Do you call it Pitocin?

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:26:

We do and you call it Syntocinon, correct?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:03:28:

Syntocinon, yeah. I was trying to get both then, yeah. So I had that and then I had an epidural and I ended up having an episiotomy, forceps and a postpartum hemorrhage. So I went into that birth really feeling confident and excited about the challenge of labor. I’d always wanted to be a mom and I felt really blindsided by that birth. I went in with the midwifery group practice. So I had a known midwife through all my appointments, the same midwife at my birth and six weeks after care with her. So I had the gold standard continuity of care model that was publicly funded. So it didn’t cost me any money in Australia. So I had everything working in my favor, but I had a really traumatic experience.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:04:07:

Did you ever find out what caused the stalled labor for so long?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:04:12:

Oh, so as you would know, I think you have one intervention, then it’s hard to rule out what was causing what. But my son was also 4.4 kilos. So my partner’s Fiji and so he’s a big solid guy. And I think I often think about it as like, oh, well, he was a big baby. And then I was lying on my back with an epidural. So I wasn’t using gravity. And then his heart rate decelerated. So they wanted to get him out quickly with forceps. And I think perhaps that led to the hemorrhage. But I mean, it’s all very much chicken and egg at that point. I think so many things coming into play. But I really felt like I was doing all the right things for the first 24 hours. I was using water. I was using TENS machine and doing all the things. And I was given a bit of false hope going into that birth because I got to four centimeters not really knowing I was in labor. And the midwife said, oh, you’ll be fine. You’ll have this baby by this afternoon. And then sort of 36 hours later, it still wasn’t happening. So I think emotionally I gave up as well. So when I went into my second birth, I thought I really need to do the mental work. I knew a lot of the kind of choices I could make, but I gave up emotionally and physically halfway through. So I did a lot of work. It didn’t deter me from having kids because I’ve had three boys. So I was keen to have another go. But I think the big point of difference for me in my second pregnancy is I really immersed myself in other people’s birth experiences. I went into that first birth thinking I’ve totally got this, not scared of the pain. I’m going to move into the physiology of birth.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:40:

My body knows what to do.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:05:42:

Yeah, I really did feel that. And my mum had had really quick labours and really positive experiences. So I had all of that in my corner. But I think really what I hadn’t prepared for were things going awry. So when it wasn’t Plan A in action, I didn’t have a plan B or a C or a D. And I really wanted to ensure I’d immerse myself in everybody’s experience so I could map those different options out for myself.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:06:07:

Very smart. I occasionally meet people like that who are like, I’ve listened to every birth story on your podcast or on these podcasts. And, you know, it is definitely a learning strategy that really appeals to a lot of people.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:06:20:

I think so. And I think we sort of have, we lead people in gently, like start with all these positives, but our podcast, we’ve now done over 550 episodes and there’s everything from, you know, a textbook, five hour water birth at home, right through to a stillbirth or an emergency Caesarean with complications. So I think people come to the podcast and sort of dip their toe in the water in the positive ones. And as they kind of get more informed and feel more confident, then they explore the more challenging situations. And they’re the kind of lovely messages that I’m sure you receive regularly of people saying, oh, thank goodness. I listened to episode 367 with Sarah, because when she chose to kind of ask for this in the delivery suite, I thought, oh yeah, I’m going to ask for that. So it’s so beautiful to hear people draw on that kind of firsthand experience and interweave it into their own journeys. So I went on to have a really lovely second birth. And again, hard to know. I definitely absorbed all the stories, had all the birth plans in place. I had the same model of care and the same hospital. So a known midwife, the same midwife, actually, which is lovely, an extra level of continuity. And this time I went into hospital at about eight centimeters and just sort of squatted down on a yoga mat and pushed him out. But he was a kilo lighter. So I think that definitely helped. And obviously I’d done it before, but I’d really empowered myself. And I think every contraction I leaned into and surrendered and visualized the physiology of the stretching rather than tensing up and thinking, this has gone on too long. Something’s not working, which is how my first birth kind of played out in the end.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:08:00:

Interesting. Okay. And so for those listening who aren’t used to hearing baby’s weights in kilograms, 4.4 kilograms weight of your first baby is about nine and a half pounds. And then you said your second baby was one kilogram liter. So they were a little over two pounds lighter.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:08:16:

Yeah. Pretty average he was. Yeah. The first episode of the podcast is my second birth. And then the subsequent episodes is my sister and my close friends. Cause I really didn’t anticipate it becoming what it has today. So it was just a handful of close friends. And I was like, I’ll just document my birth. And I enjoyed listening to other podcasts. It was really in the infancy of podcasts, particularly in Australia back in 2017. So I didn’t think anyone would listen and I didn’t think it would lead to what it has done today, but it’s been incredible. And I feel so grateful that people have entrusted me to kind of share these stories. And I think my mom’s a psychologist, so I think I’m a good listener and people enjoy that kind of relaxed, supportive nature of the show. And I think that’s what’s really helped it form into this beautiful community that it has today.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:09:03:

That’s amazing. We’ve mentioned a couple of terminology differences between the U.S. where I’m based in Australia, where you are kilograms and Syntocinon of But are some of the other key differences or things that are unique to Australia that our listeners might want to know about?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:09:25:

Yeah, so we have in Australia what’s called Medicare, which is publicly funded healthcare, which I feel we’re incredibly, incredibly lucky to have. And similarly in the UK, it’s the NHS. So you basically have a small card that you can just go into the hospital at any point. And so you basically go in with this Medicare card and you’ll be seen and treated and there will be no exchange of money. No one will ask you for any money at all. So we’re so, so lucky. And in terms of midwifery care, there’s quite a few different options open. So the model that I went through was publicly funded MGP. We call it midwifery group practice. So I had a known midwife for all my appointments for the birth and for the aftercare. You can also have a publicly funded birth where you see a mixture of different midwives in a team usually. So some people do just mostly the antenatal care and then you’ll see whoever’s rusted on midwife wise in the hospital on the day. And then similarly throughout postpartum period. I think what’s unique to the model of care that I had is they come to your home. So you’re zoned to a hospital and they will come and do home visits. So I spent 24 hours in hospital and then every day for the next week, they come to your home and check, say, any stitches or help you with breastfeeding. And you have that sort of friendly face and known person supporting you in those early days. You can also go through the publicly funded hospital and have an obstetrician if you’re in a higher risk category and you need perhaps to be overseen or they deem that you need to be overseen by an obstetrician. You can also have a private midwife and pay out of pocket and have them either at a home birth or in a hospital. Or you can have a private obstetrician who has a midwife that works with them. Those kind of range up to our dollars are pretty similar at the moment, I think. But you can pay anywhere between sort of $5,000 to $10,000 to see an obstetrician. And that’s having extra medication. So an epidural might increase that cost or having a Caesarean would increase that cost again. Another point of difference in that model of care is you don’t have home visits. You go into the hospital and see your obstetrician at six weeks. So often people are flying a bit blind, so to speak, during that six-week period because you’ve got less. Less one-on-one contact and that’s when you perhaps might bring in a privately funded lactation consultant. There are lactation consultants that you can see that I had access to in the public system where you can just present and they’ll support you. We’re really campaigning for more funding and support to get lactation consultants and pelvic floor and physio post-birth covered under Medicare. But I think people who are listening in America would be like, wow, that’s incredible. We are incredibly lucky. You’re out of pocket a small amount for ultrasounds, but generally there are a few hundred dollars at the most. So I think all up in my three births, I would have spent perhaps $1,000 Australian dollars on everything. So incredibly lucky.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:24:

Okay. And so you only got the postpartum home visits if you chose the midwifery model of care.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:12:30:

That’s correct. Yeah. And I mean, we know from the research that having that continuity of care and midwifery led care is in line with having the best outcomes. And in Australia, only 6% of women have access to the program that I was able to access. So we’re always in the podcast saying like almost the night before you’re going to try, you need to call the hospital and ask for MGP if that’s the model that you’re after and you really have to campaign for it. And I mean, occasionally people move out of that program for various reasons if they have a complication in their pregnancy. So sometimes you can be on a waiting list and get in at a later point, but generally you need to know the model of care that you want to go into so you can actively try and get on that list as soon as possible.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:10:

Okay. So most people have to go in the physician led model of care.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:13:14:

Yeah. I’m sorry. There is one other option as well. Shared care, we call it, which is where you see your GP or just regular doctor, which can be bulk billed and be free of charge. And they see you up until about six months of the pregnancy and then you see a local hospital. So it’s slightly fragmented, but sometimes people prefer to have that continuity of care with a doctor they’ve seen over the years, but then you transfer into a hospital. So yeah, it can be free or if you want that private obstetric model, then you’d be looking between 5 and 10,000 and up.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:13:46:

So it sounds like the publicly funded healthcare system is one of the strengths of the Australian maternity care system.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:13:55:

Yeah, we’re in quite a flux at the moment with a lot of the private hospitals closing down, which is increasing the pressure on the public. So we’re in a bit of turmoil at the moment. They talk about having postcode lottery. So where your zip code is probably your equivalent. If you’re in a good zip code with a good hospital, then you’ve got more options. But if you’re more remote in more of a rural area, then you’ve got less options. So we’re trying to really get more funding so that everybody has the same level of options and care so they can choose how they want to give birth, however that might be.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:28:

And what are some of the other challenges then of giving birth in Australia? I remember one of the very first birth conferences I went to, it was probably a little more than 10 years ago. And I was talking with someone from New Zealand, someone from Australia, and they were just telling me that. In Australia, things were, in their words, quote unquote, pretty bad because of the really high rates of intervention and how hard it was to get a midwife. Is that still the case or has it gotten better? What are your thoughts?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:14:57:

Yeah, it’s definitely challenging. And that’s that sort of 6% of women having access to that model of care that a lot of people want. And that statistics show is going to give you the best outcomes. One in three women in Australia experience birth trauma, which is just feels incredible in a first world country with a great healthcare system set up. So it’s definitely failing women there. And I feel like that first birth that I experienced, I definitely had trauma and I have prolapse from the forceps and ongoing health concerns there, which is out of pocket expense to get treatment for that. But we’ve definitely stretched. And I think with private hospitals closing down and more weight falling on the public system, then there’s more burnout for the midwives. And they’re notoriously, I think, across the board with healthcare providers underpaid for the work that they do. So when you’re overstretched and understaffed, it’s less appealing for people who want to move into that line of work. And I think another challenge is it’s harder to get anaesthetists and private obstetricians to work in remote areas that are already stretched and underfunded. It’s hard to get them into those areas. They’re more likely to be in the city where they can earn a greater wage and have more kind of facilities and options for them and their family. So many challenges. Another one is really hard once you’ve had children to move into that shift work model of care. And I think we need more flexibility in the way that we can have rosters for midwives so that you can choose to do sort of antenatal care in a block and be more flexible with your own family. Or say you want to just do be on call for births. There’s limited options. So it’s hard to attract people into an overstretched underpaid career.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:37:

Okay. So once they’re midwives, they’re on call a lot of the time.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:16:41:

Yes.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:42:

And they can’t just have a schedule, block schedule. Okay.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:16:45:

Yeah. That’s like the midwife that I had was on call for me. She had a backup midwife if she was at another birth or was unwell, but generally she was on call for me. So they can only then have a certain number on their books and manage that caseload.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:59:

Yeah. Which there’s pros to that on-call system. I think it’s oftentimes better for the clients because you know, who’s going to be at your birth, but then the cons are, it’s not very good for work life balance for the staff. They miss a lot of things. Yeah.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:17:14:

Yeah. It’s really taxing. And it’s hard because obviously to be a midwife is to be with women. So they’re drawn in. There’s a calling for that innately to be with the woman that you’re working with. But yeah, lifestyle wise, it’s very challenging.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:17:26:

What about outcomes then like Caesarean rates, breastfeeding rates? What is that like in Australia?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:17:33:

Yeah, our Caesarean rates are incredibly high. I think they might even be higher than America at the moment. So yeah, one in three experienced birth trauma, our intervention rates have just escaped me, but they’re exceptionally high for a sort of first world country with the healthcare system that we have. So there’s a lot of talk about cascade of intervention and there is generally a bit of a, I’m not sure if it’s the same for you over there, but an animosity, a bit of an us versus them with midwives and obstetricians. There’s definitely higher rates if you go through an obstetric model of care through the private system that you’re more likely to have interventions and or a Caesarean. So I feel like people are drawn into that model of care wanting continuity, but they have to also accept they’re more likely to have interventions and Cesareans. And I mean, some people are electing to have them and they’re happy to go into that model of care knowing that that’s… Likely. But if you’re wanting low intervention birth and continuity of care, the research supports that the MGP program, which is overstretched is, is your best bet.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:38:

Your best bet. And yeah, that is challenging. And I remember in that conversation, that’s similar to what they described to me. And then the birth worker from New Zealand was like very different, you know, which is interesting because the two countries are fairly close together, relatively speaking, and very different outcomes, very different access to midwifery care.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:19:00:

Yeah, and philosophies around the importance of that support. I’ve heard wonderful things about, I mean, obviously every hospital and every care provider is going to be different, but generally speaking, I’ve heard wonderful things about the New Zealand model of care with breastfeeding, like they’re really honed in on that first latch and not getting any nipple damage there and really ensuring that you’ve got that understanding from the very first feed because we all know that you can do a few bad feeds and it can set you back kind of. A week or 10 days just trying to get over the healing and then master that really challenging skill. So I think they’re definitely doing good things there. We’re trying to, I think, bridge the gap with student midwives. So we’re often saying if you don’t get the model of care you want and you don’t have that continuity, then seek out a student midwife who has to attend a certain number of births to qualify. So there’s plenty of those going around and wanting to support you. Similarly, people can get a doula, but that’s out of pocket expenses. So you’d privately do that. But there’s definitely a real rise in both birth doulas and postpartum doulas here in Australia at the moment.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:05:

Okay, so more and more people are going into doula work or considering hiring one for their birth.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:20:10:

Yeah, both. I think, yeah, more people going into it and definitely more people seeking it out. And I think for subsequent births, because you kind of don’t know what you don’t know a lot of the time with your first birth, but people going in the second time think, I don’t want to repeat of that. And I need more support either in the birth space or I need more support in the postpartum space. And they’re seeking out these doulas to support them there.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:32:

For as long as I’ve been looking at birth statistics, I also remember that Australia has a pretty high induction rate and a lot of the research on induction and those kinds of topics comes out of Australia.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:20:44:

Yeah, I think we’re still, and probably similar to America, still drawing on kind of studies that have been proven to be not that strong. I think the ARRIVE Study is-

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:54:

Did that impact practice? Yeah.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:20:55:

Yeah. People are still throwing that around like, yeah, like, oh, 37 weeks, you know, let’s book you in. And I think there’s a lot of people trying to have feedbacks and things that are getting more and more educated and kind of empowering and drawing each other together in communities of like, okay, well, I’ve actually unpacked that study. And when they bring it up in the 37, 38 week appointment, I’m ready and armed with these are the reasons why I perhaps don’t want to be induced at that point. But it’s a lot of onus on the woman and her family to do that research, which I think is incredibly sad that you have to, I’m going through perimenopause at the moment. I feel like I’m upskilling in that area. And it’s like, oh, I didn’t have time to upskill in this area. And it’s asking a lot of a pregnant woman and her family to suddenly become a midwife or a doula and be across all the research and statistics to advocate for themselves in the room, which is why resources like yours is so important to really simplify it for people so that they can go in knowing what they want. But yeah, I think outdated research or research that’s been proven to not be strong is still being relied on and kind of bandied around in the appointments.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:05:

Yeah, that really paints a picture in my mind of the dilemma of someone who gets pregnant and then all of a sudden they’re like, I have to learn everything that a doula or a midwife would know in order to navigate the system. It is a big burden and not something that everybody can or wants to do.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:22:21:

Yeah. And I feel like people go to an appointment and they say, oh, you’ve got a really large baby. And then they’re like, right, okay, large baby doing all the research. And again, turning to resources like yours and going, okay, realistically, what is it? Because you’re getting one medical profession’s philosophy and their understanding of the research and data and what they’ve seen in their field too. They’re perhaps only seeing high-risk patients or they haven’t witnessed a lot of physiological births, which is another challenge. As they become fewer and fewer, then a lot of midwives and obstetricians aren’t seeing a physiological birth and they’re not kind of reminded of how it can go if untouched and if everything’s going well, they’re just seeing kind of worst case scenario or they’re implementing early and then creating some of that.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:23:07:

Yeah. It’s just like over and over, it keeps reinforcing their viewpoint that they need to intervene because that’s all they ever see.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:23:14:

Yeah, because I think people could look at my first birth and say, oh, thank God you’re in a hospital then because his heart rate dropped and you lost 900 mils. And thank God you had all that intervention. But then you can similarly wind it back and say, yeah, but if I’d gone into hospital later, I wouldn’t have been on the clock and I wouldn’t have been on continuous monitoring. And maybe I wouldn’t have opted for the epidural and I wouldn’t have been on my back. So you can kind of it’s a bit like lying with statistics, isn’t it? You can kind of flip it both ways. So I think there’s certainly a philosophy of like, oh, thank God I was there to have all the interventions, but it’s perhaps not always the case. And I feel like when I record my episodes, I’m often biting my tongue and I think, well, I’ll just let you say your experience, how you saw it. And everybody can listen in and think what they’d like for themselves, because I want it to be a safe space where people can talk. But often it’s like, oh, I never would have done that.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:07:

I can imagine too that it takes a toll, you know, when you’re listening really intently, being deeply present and with that person when they’re sharing their story. And it’s a traumatic story, something that was preventable or caused by the system. That’s hard to do. Yeah.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:24:25:

Yeah, it is. But again, I mean, every birth is so different and everybody’s experience and then how they reflect back on it is so different. So it feels like an honor and a privilege to be able to do it. But I don’t do too many in a row because I think, yeah, you need to sort of decompress. And I often say to people afterwards, just go gently throughout the rest of today because you’ve gone right back into your birth. Sort of start nervous, but then an hour in there, like, because our episodes are quite long. They’re like right back in that room because you just don’t forget it.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:53:

That’s true. You don’t. Switching gears to postpartum, did you have good postpartum experiences then with your kids or bad or a mix? What was it like for you?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:25:03:

Yeah, I was in a bit of an unusual setting for my first because we didn’t exactly plan to conceive. Well, we were sort of trying, but not really like, yeah, we’re open to it happening. Anyway, we were in between things. We were both finishing our masters, my partner and I. So we were living at home with my mom. So when we came home from hospital, we were living in the family home where I grew up and my mom cooked for me. I feel like, again, I had gold standard because I get along with my mom, but probably not everybody’s cup of tea. But my mom was cooking for me and it was the first grandchild. So as soon as we’d wake up in the morning, they were kind of hovering around the door, itching for a cuddle. So I was able to go and have a shower and knew that he was in loving, caring hands. So again, my mom had had really positive breastfeeding experiences. So I thought, oh, that’ll be fine. But I had a baby who’d had a force of delivery. He was quite bruised and swollen and was 4.4 kilos. So he was hungry. So I did find breastfeeding initially quite hard. And we have a free service in Australia called the Australian Breastfeeding Association. And it’s a phone line that’s, I don’t think it’s quite 24 hours, but it’s close to it. And you can just call this line and volunteers will answer the phone who’ve been trained, but have also breastfed. And we’ll talk you through what’s going on. And the first call I made to them, I spoke to a beautiful woman and basically did a full birth debrief. She was like, okay, so what’s going on? And I cried down the phone. And my mom actually said, I think his fontanelle is going in. I think you need to give him boiled water. And I was like, mom, they don’t do that anymore. I’m talking to the professionals now. So, I mean, she was 95% wonderful, but a few different things. I was like, yeah, that’s not done anymore. Nobody does that. But that’s a really wonderful resource that I feel incredibly lucky to have been able to draw on. And we then move to after you’re discharged from hospital, everybody in Australia gets connected with a local maternal health nurse who’s a qualified midwife and has done lactation consulting training. And you go to them and you get the baby weighed and measured and you can ask them any questions. So that’s another resource. I’m not sure if you do something similar, do you?

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:09:

Well, it depends where you are, but it’s not routine. I’ll say that.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:27:13:

Okay. Yeah. It’s where everybody does it here. You kind of get a book from the hospital and you take that book to the Turner Health Nurse. And then they also connect you with a mother’s group. So other women in your community that have birth kind of give or take six or eight weeks around you will be put into a mother’s group and people really take that up. Often people, yeah, it’s a real thing here. I’m not still friends with the mothers from my mother’s group. It’s for your first baby usually. And people have them as lifelong friends. It’s like quite normal for people to say, oh, so I’ve got my school mom friends and I’ve got my mother’s group mom friends. And it’s very, very common for people to maintain those friendships right through and to kind of, you know, at least once a year kind of catch up and see how the babies are going. So yeah, it’s a beautiful system. And I think if you don’t gel, you can make your own mother’s group, but it’s a way of trying to support you in those early days. And they do a bit of group work where they’re like, you know, troubleshoot breastfeeding challenges or talk you through different things like different nappies or different products that you might like to try and support each other in that way. But there’s kind of six organized meetings where you go together with your maternal health nurse and then it’s up to you as a group, whether you maintain that friendship and whether you meet up afterwards, but people really do. It’s very, very common.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:26:

It sounds like an incredible resource for postpartum. It reminds me of how a lot of moms create like due date groups online on different social media platforms and then like keep in touch with the people who are all expecting around the same time. But of course that’s all like led by the patients and it’s all virtual asynchronous. It’s not like an in-person or even a zoom support group. So that’s really cool that they’re actually matching people up with.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:28:51:

Yeah. And you can meet in the local park. Like you actually zone to the same area. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really special.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:58:

Does a nurse come to those meetings as well?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:29:00:

Yeah, to the first sort of six meetings, you’ll have like, it’ll be a set day and time at a healthcare center near you. And you can come however you like, really. Often people come in crying, can’t get the pram in the door. Like everybody’s a struggling new mom. And I think it’s a nice cathartic way to kind of support each other. And you’ve got somebody who’s a baby that’s literally at the same stage as you. So you’re all going through, say the four months sleep, sleep or regression or however you want to call it. But you’re going through those stages at the same time. So often you’ll create a WhatsApp group and you’ll be messaging each other in the night and things like that. But that is a real thing here.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:29:36:

Wow. Okay. So, you know, obviously you feel really passionate about both birth and postpartum, you know. In terms of planning for postpartum, what are some common mistakes you see people make?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:29:51:

I think people will often say I put all my effort into the birth and the nursery and I didn’t kind of think about the next kind of free fall. And we have those groups, I feel like I’ve really sung the praises of the maternal health nurse groups, which are wonderful. But generally, from a medical point of view, you’re not seeing a lactation consultant or a pelvic floor physio or any of those things that you’re regularly doing in pregnancy. So it is a bit of a, we call it a postpartum cliff. I’m not sure if you refer to it here, where you literally, the services stop after a period of time, and you’re just expected to kind of work out breastfeeding and hopefully your scars healing, that sort of thing. And off you go. Even if you’ve seen a private obstetrician, they’ll check your, say, Caesarean scar or any issues at six weeks, but then that’s it. It’s up to you to maintain your health and navigate early parenting. I think, which sort of led us to make the second book of like, all right, this is how you get through the next stage, because we’ve done all the work on the birth, but the first six weeks is notoriously challenging. And I think- People assume until you’ve done it that breastfeeding will come naturally and that you just kind of stick them on. And I think it’s because those first six weeks with a baby is done at home in the dark, crying into breastfeeds, trying to navigate breast pumps, all the things. And you don’t see that version of a mother. You see the mother out in a cafe sort of breastfeeding discreetly with their pram all done up, looking like they’ve got it together. And I think people assume that it’s going to be that easy because you don’t see that turmoil. So I feel like we really need to be realistic about what the first 6, 12 weeks of breastfeeding can look like. And we really advocate for people to have conversations with their partner about how important that is for them. Like if you haven’t relayed to your partner, look, I am really, really find it important and really want to invest the time and energy to get breastfeeding right. It’s really important to me. Then they won’t be saying to you when you’re kind of crying through nipple damage, I’ll just use the formula. Like it’s no big deal. Nobody cares kind of thing. And flip side to that, if you don’t want to breastfeed or you feel like that’s not an avenue you want to go, then you want to have everything in place for that. And you want to have a realistic discussion of who’s going to do the bottles at night, who’s going to manage that side of things. But I think looking at realistically how challenging the first six weeks are together, and I think we also encourage people to have some resources on the fridge. Like have that phone number that I called in Australia, the Australian Breastfeeding Association. They give out magnets. You can have that on the fridge front and centre. So look, if I am finding it hard, I can call them. Or if I’m really finding it hard, I can call my maternal health nurse. And having a bit of a system, similarly to encouraging people to have a birth plan, have a postpartum plan for when things get challenging and have some resources and some networks you can draw on. I think it’s also become really common to do meal trains. Do people do much of that?

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:32:46:

Yeah.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:32:47:

Just taking the pressure off that. I mean, babies are notoriously challenging from sort of 4 p.m. to midnight, give or take. And I think having a meal ready to go, especially if you’ve got other children. Yeah, so I feel like there’s a real awareness of getting the meals in and getting helpful support.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:04:

I never thought about the time of day, but you’re totally right. The witching hour that, you know, the hours when they’re cluster feeding and really fussy and you’re exhausted. Yeah, that’s the hardest time to cook or prepare food for sure.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:33:18:

And I think there’s a kind of misconception too. If you’ve had a baby, you’ll be fine. You’ve done it all before. And obviously if you’ve had a child, you know, things are fleeting and it’s challenging for this period of time and you’ve breastfed before and you’ve recovered before. But I think the more children you have, the harder it gets logistically. And the more support you need postpartum, I think that’s when people think, oh, you know what you’re doing. And it’s like, actually, no, I’ve got a toddler and I’ve got to do the school run and I’m making lunches. So I think not forgetting about that every birth is different. Every child is different and supporting every postpartum family, whatever number of child it is. I got a soft spot having three kids. I think you need the most at the third.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:58:

Yeah, that is so true because every postpartum is unique. And like you said, you never know. I had a friend whose husband, they had four kids and he always said like, you have one child, one baby, and you learn how to do it. And then he’s like, then you have another one and you throw out that manual and you start again, which I never really felt that bad. My three kids were similar enough that I felt like I learned pretty good. They all had similar temperaments. I have lots of friends and family who, you know, have had very challenging second, third, fourth postpartum experiences. So you’re right. Just because it’s not your first baby doesn’t mean you don’t need help.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:34:36:

Yeah. And if you’ve had a sleep, a good sleeper, you know, inverted commas or a good feeder, you might not the next time. Yeah. It’s a false sense of security sometimes.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:45:

It’s for sure. So what are some practical ways families can prepare? Like you talked about making a plan. What are some things aside from putting, you know, phone numbers on the fridge and the lactation education, which you mentioned is really important. What are some other ways they can prepare?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:35:01:

Yeah, I think it feeds into birth as well, but particularly great for postpartum. We encourage people to go and see a women’s health physio and have an internal assessment of their pelvic floor so they have a real understanding of those muscles. Because regardless of having a vaginal birth or a Caesarean, you’re going to need to work on your pelvic floor muscles just from carrying the weight of the pregnancy. So we really encourage people to connect with one early in pregnancy so they know what your baseline is. I mean, ideally prior to conceiving, but realistically in late term pregnancy, often people go and just to learn how to release it for birth and draw it back in afterwards. And there’s sort of simple exercises you can do post birth, even in the first kind of 10 days of starting to re-engage your pelvic floor. And as someone who’s had a prolapse, I’ve done a lot of work in that department. We are really encouraging that. And there’s a real rise in that in Australia. I feel like at the moment, a lot more women’s health physios that specialize in pelvic floor recovery. It might be an initial few appointments and you can do a lot of those exercises at home, but that can have really incredible benefits for sort of incontinence or issues that you might face post-birth. Similarly, you can do that with breastfeeding. People are there’s now kind of, it’s hard to know sometimes, is it just the circles I’m running in or is everybody doing it? But people who really want to breastfeed, seeing a lactation consultant are doing antenatal expressing prior to birth. But I think the big point of difference with our book is there’s a lot of resources out there of like the baby’s doing this at six weeks, the baby’s doing this at seven weeks, it should be doing tummy time, it should be rolling, all these sorts of things. And our book is like holding the mother. We say it’s a companion for the mother. And we talk about the hormonal shift, like that incredible drop that you have post-birth and not just thinking, dismissing it of, oh, day five blues and I’ll cry a bit and I’ll cry about the good things and I’ll cry about the bad things. And that’ll be fine. There’s a real increase in postnatal anxiety and depression here. And we’ve got some wonderful resources to support women and their families emotionally. But understanding those signs and symptoms to recognize this is actually going on a bit longer or it’s impacting my day to day and I’m not enjoying the baby or I’m not able to leave the house or I’m not connecting with friends. And we kind of really talk about the hormonal shifts and the actual changes in the brain post-birth and acknowledge those sorts of shifts. So, I mean, surface level, there’s functional help that you can get into the home, organize people to do, you know, house duties and meal trains. But we really got into the crux of the how to support yourself holistically. And it’s a rebirth. It’s the birth of the baby, but it’s a birth of the mother and a whole new chapter and really honoring and nurturing that shift and change is so, so important and often neglected. I think you go to those maternal health nurse checks and predominantly they’re weighing the baby and checking that the baby’s hearing is fine and all that. And there’s a lot less checks in on the mother at that point. And I think you have your tummy measured all throughout pregnancy and your blood pressure taken. And then as soon as the baby’s out, it’s like, okay, we’re just going to focus on this one now. So we’re really trying to hold the mother and nurture and support her.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:38:09:

And even more important in places where the maternal mortality rate, you know, is really high because it tends to be actually most deaths are postpartum rather than in pregnancy or during the birth in terms of the maternal mortality rate in most countries.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:38:26:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think we tried really hard to acknowledge the different makeups and the way people want to do things in their home, whether you want to co-sleep or whether you want to try sleep training. We’ve kind of looked at these are all the things that terms you’ll hear and people will say, oh, you’re doing this, are you doing this, are you doing this? And so you can collectively look at all the things and see what works for you as your family. Because I think particularly in a day where you’re always in this day and age where we’re on social media all the time, you’re comparing all the time and you’re trying to kind of like, what is this motherly instinct I’m meant to have just been equipped with? Like, what do I want? What style is right for our family? And we try and just put everything out on the table. These are all the approaches, but you choose what works for you and your family. And perhaps sometimes you don’t have to broadcast it. No one has to know what you’re doing at home as long as it’s working for you. And kind of, yeah, just supporting you and giving yourself permission to tap in with yourself and do what’s working.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:22:

You just gave us, I feel like, a wealth of info in five minutes. I took notes so I could recap. We talked about meal trains earlier and lactation education, but you said actually seeing, we call them pelvic floor therapists, physical therapists in the U.S.. It’s a physiotherapist in Australia who specializes in the pelvic floor, actually seeing them during the birth. We’ll link in the show notes. We have two episodes on the podcast, episode 155 and 256, all about pelvic floor health. And I think 256 even goes into the prenatal preparation that you were talking about. Actually potentially seeing a lactation consultant, learning how to express milk during the end of your pregnancy, education on mental health so that you know the warning signs and what to look for and deciding kind of on your sleep plans and your kind of parenting philosophy, like how you want to care for this baby and yourself leading up throughout that postpartum period.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:40:18:

Yeah. And I think, I mean, there’s so many components, but then also it’s a big shift in your relationship too. So even having discussions about sex and things like that, I feel like you go to the six week check and they notoriously over here say, okay, so what contraception do you want to go on? And I’m like, thanks. I’m not going back to that, but having a realistic chat about, look, it might take a while and maybe I don’t want to do sort of penetrative sex. Maybe we can just start by exploring other things and having really clear discussions with your partner before you’re at that stage is really helpful. Remember how I said, I might not want to even dabble there at all for 12 weeks or whatever, but just put the feelers out and just indicate where you both stand and how you’re going to approach that rather than in the throes of like. I don’t know, 2 a.m. when you’re saying, I don’t want to do sleep training. I want to co-sleep. Like you don’t want to be having those arguments when you’re both exhausted, which will come up. But if you have a little bit of a game plan and you’ve chatted through your philosophies, because yeah, the things you have, you know, talk about on date night, if you’re not pregnant, you don’t know what you’re going to want to do, you know, logistically with the baby in the bed and things like that.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:25:

Mm-hmm. I think one of our most popular episodes ever, it was a while ago, it was 118, how to have a healthy postpartum transition with Dr. Alyssa Berlin. And she focused on the whole dating thing and how to handle your relationship. So if anybody’s interested in learning more about diving deep into, you know, just expectations and ways you can like grow your relationship postpartum, it’s very important as well.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:41:50:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:51:

Yeah. For both ends of the partner spectrum, it’s challenging for sure. Can you talk about a little bit more about sleep? Is that something you cover in your book then about sleep postpartum?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:42:04:

Yeah, I’m not sure if it’s the same over there. It probably is. We talk about the sleep industry. It’s a big money-making industry over here. You don’t have to do a particular qualification to call yourself a baby sleep trainer.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:42:17:

Or a sleep consultant.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:42:19:

Yeah, so a bit like a counsellor. You’re not officially a psychologist, but you’re under that banner, and sometimes that can be a little bit misleading for people. There’s a book here that’s very, very popular that’s pretty much on the philosophy of put your baby to bed at 7 p.m., and they should sleep till 7 a.m.. And we talk about the biological norms of what is biologically normal for a baby, especially if you’re feeding on demand. Realistically, you’re going to be looking at sort of two to three hourly feeds for this amount of time. And the reasons why a baby wakes regularly, you know, there’s a lot of different reasons in those early days. And a bit like in birth, if you understand the physiology of a contraction, then you’re less resistant. If you understand the baby’s waking frequently because its stomach’s the size of a marble in the first day and it can only take in, you know, a certain amount, it’s going to need regular feeding. And part of that feeds into supply and demand of your breastfeeding. And so it’s trying to bring the milk in. And if you’re understanding those kind of processes, you’re not like, oh, my God, we’re never going to sleep. You’re aware that, okay, this will stretch out. Their stomach will grow. My milk will come in. And you have a little bit of a loose map. Obviously, it doesn’t go chronologically like that. But understanding why things are happening that way is a lot less scary, I think. So we talk about SIDS awareness kind of models and different organizations that support and inform you about the risks of co-sleeping. But we also talk about how to do it safely. So we’re not telling you don’t do sleep training or don’t do this. But we’re like, these are the different reasons. This is what’s normal biologically for a baby for their needs. Obviously, there’s a big spectrum too. And I think people aren’t aware that different babies have different sleep needs. So when another mother in the mother’s group says, oh, my baby, you know, goes down at 10 and wakes up at 5, you think, how come I’m not achieving that? Their baby has different sleep needs. And perhaps they’re feeding differently or, you know, understanding those kind of concepts before you approach it. But you do need to have a basic idea of are you comfortable having the baby in your room? Do you want to have a bassinet in the room? Or do you want to co-sleep safely? And if so, how are you going to set that up? Because in our family, we did co-sleep. And logistically, I made myself a little nest. So I slept with the baby in a separate room. So I wasn’t sleeping with my partner in those initial periods of time. And we did all the things to support. I wasn’t doing any of the risk factors like smoking or drinking. And we had the bedding situated so that it wasn’t going to smother him and all those sorts of things. So there’s different things you can put in place to implement a safe sleeping environment, whichever way you choose to go. But important to kind of have some ideas around that. I notoriously remind my best friend rang me with her newborn and I hadn’t had a baby yet. And she said, you’ll need to go and buy me a new bassinet because you won’t sleep. Like it must be the bassinet. And we still laugh about it because this wanted to be held. And we talk about, you know, instincts in a baby, why they need to be close and why they like to. I don’t even really like the term contact nap because they’re just being close to you and sleeping. I feel like people like that’s a contact nap as if it’s less quality than a bassinet nap when really it’s sleep. Sleep is sleep. So we talk about all those sorts of sleep pressures and different things like that.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:45:35:

Yeah, I’m sure. I feel like everybody listening who’s raised a newborn probably can remember that they fall asleep with your arm on them and then you like slowly over 10 minutes try to like bring your hand and then your arm like just gradually and then you’re like hovering and then, you know, a minute later the baby wakes up because… No matter how sneaky you try to do it, they’re like, I just want to be touched by you right now.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:45:57:

I know.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:45:57:

You know? Yeah. So you’re saying though, to make a plan and maybe some backup plans so that you’re not in the middle of the night, completely demoralized, crying, trying to figure it out, but you already have like several options in place.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:46:12:

Yeah, definitely. And I’m not saying I mapped all these things out and it went smoothly. I was just like everybody else was crying at 2 a.m. going, I cannot have another sleepless night. I cannot do another minute of this. So we’re all met with challenges, but I think exploring and having an awareness of what might be coming so you’re not completely blindsided. And I think people sometimes say when they’re in that early postpartum, I spent all my time and energy on the birth and I neglected this stage. I’m not saying spend less time on the birth. I still think that’s really important, but also spend almost an equal amount of time in planning for what you envisage for your postpartum period.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:46:49:

So don’t neglect either of those.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:46:52:

More, not less.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:46:55:

Yeah. Do you have any tips for someone currently pregnant who’s listening and they’re like, what are some top things I can do to have the best possible postpartum experience? Maybe that we haven’t covered yet.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:47:08:

Yeah, I think just communication is so important. If you’re in a partner, and I know some people going into birth, if you have a partner that’s going to be navigating this with you, having those discussions and putting it in place. I think we sort of touched on mental health, but also a lot of people that I’ve interviewed who have had perhaps more at a higher risk of developing postpartum depression or anxiety, perhaps they’ve got a family history or they’ve suffered from these conditions in the past, then there’s a heightened likelihood that these will surface. So we often talk about even if you’re not seeing your psychologist or your counsellor or therapist in pregnancy because you’re not needing them at that point, perhaps book in a few sessions as a backup if things are raised and then you can get in because it’s very hard to get an appointment with a psychologist here in Australia. So that’s another kind of safety net that you can put in place for yourself. And if you don’t need to go, that’s great. You can cancel it. But if you’ve got it in place, and sometimes it’s nice to just, for that care provider who’s known you for a period of time to see you in this new phase of life, and you can just debrief the birth if nothing else, but perhaps you want to talk about something that’s caught you by surprise like intrusive thoughts or heightened kind of parental anxiety that you want to work through is another kind of safety net you can put in place for your own mental health.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:48:26:

For everybody who’s listening, I want you to pause and think, you know, what’s one takeaway you’ve gotten so far from Sophie? Because she’s dropped so many knowledge and wisdom bombs on us that we’re just like trying to absorb them all. There’s so many good tips. For me, I think one thing that sticks out to me was just going back to the beginning and talking about the supportive group of other parents in your community who’ve had a baby recently and somehow trying to create that or recreate that or get plugged in somewhere so that you’re not alone when you’re going through all of this. Because I think that is what kind of can make the difference between maybe struggling or having a difficult time and then suffering, you know? At least if you have other people you’re going it through with, you’re not alone in that time.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:49:14:

Yeah. And I think people do that through yoga groups and things as well. If you’re doing prenatal yoga or you’re doing kind of pregnancy related activities, you can be like, do you want to swap numbers? Just be a little bit bold.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:49:28:

Yeah. Meet up at the park and go on a walk. Yeah. Sophie, thank you so much for sharing all of this with us. Do you have any favorite episodes from your podcast that perhaps are, you know, maybe an example of an empowering birth story and then maybe a birth story that was challenging and they had to overcome challenges through that so that we can kind of, for people who want to listen more to you and learn from you where they can start.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:49:56:

Yeah. Well, one of my favorite episodes is with my sister because I attended her birth and that was after having my own three births. So it was so unique to be a birth support person. And I still remember seeing the baby crowning and she was saying, I can’t do this. And I thought, I don’t think you can either. Logistically, that’s… With all the knowledge that I had and all the stories I’d listened to. So it was interesting. We do that interview together and she sort of says how she was feeling at that point and how I was feeling. And we discussed that and we’re sisters. So we’re very similar. So people really enjoy that kind of bit of back and forth chatter and different perspective. I’ll have to give you the numbers and we’ll put them in the show notes. There’s another episode, which was really extreme kind of worst case scenario where this lady actually experienced HELLP syndrome and it was touch and go, whether her and her baby were going to make it. And they had definitely are both well and fine now, but she went through absolutely everything that the baby was airlifted to a special care nursery at a different hospital quite far away. And then, so she was left in ICU at this other hospital. So it was really worst case scenario. And yet it’s, it’s in my top five most listened to episodes. So I feel really proud of the listeners for like delving into that to kind of think, okay, explore that. I think also a lot of healthcare professionals listen to the podcast now, like midwives in training and stuff. So it’s kind of an educational tool in that sense. But I think it’s lovely for people to also listen to say the stillbirth episodes so that they can support family and friends going through that. I think it’s another wonderful resource, but yeah, I’ll give you my top faves to put in the show notes.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:51:33:

Do you ever suggest people limit the number of traumatic birth stories they listen to when they’re pregnant?

 

Sophie Walker – 00:51:40:

Yeah, I think there’s actually some birth causes to discourage people from listening to my podcast. Don’t listen to Australian Birth Stories because there’s, you know, there are traumatic stories and we always, they’re titled as such. And we always do a disclaimer at the start, like this touches on the following issues and it’s up to you if you want to move forward. But I just think it’s to your detriment. I think it was to my own detriment to go in going, la, la, la, la, la, I’m only doing positive stories. And then when I was met with challenges, I didn’t know what to do and I gave up. And I sort of surrendered my power to the system. I felt like, I mean, I feel like we don’t do that in other things in life. If you’re going to, I know it’s totally different, but like, say buy a car, you look at all the, you know, what’s its crash test kind of thing. Like you do the research of like, how safe is it? And all the things and you weigh up the pros and cons. And I think similarly, you need to do that a bit in birth. That’s a bit of a crude analogy, but I think you get where I’m going. But you do look at worst case scenario. I think when you’re buying a house, worst case scenario, inflation blows out and we can’t afford it. How are we going to pull it together? But I think in birth, sometimes people just go, oh, well, we’ll just see what happens on the day. And I think that is not a sensible way to move.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:52:50:

Yeah, it’s a valid point. And maybe it needs to be a balance. And depending on how you’re feeling that day, you know? Yeah. I think it seems to me that… You can’t just listen to the traumatic stories either because you need to focus on the fact that there are positive empowering stories and then the more challenging births. So I think sometimes interesting to listen to birth stories where there were challenges, but, you know, they made it through and they felt stronger on the other side and they felt supported and that they had, you know, decision-making power throughout. So there’s kind of a whole range of experiences you can learn from on your podcast.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:53:25:

Yeah. And I think we know that about a traumatic birth experience. If you felt heard and supported and cared for throughout that birth, even if you went in wanting a low intervention birth and you ended up having an emergency Caesarean, if you felt you were consulted and you were consenting and supported throughout that process, you’re far less likely to report having birth trauma. So to reach that point, you need to kind of explore those options and have heard the stories, perhaps in the last 10 days leading up or when you post dates, don’t listen to the harrowing ones. I think I give you permission to just listen to the good ones then, but at some point you do need to absorb some of them.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:54:02:

Yes. Well, thank you, Sophie, so much for joining us today and sharing some of these stories and tips with us. We really appreciate it.

 

Sophie Walker – 00:54:09:

Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:54:12:

This podcast episode was brought to you by the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class. This is Rebecca speaking. When I walked into the hospital to have my first baby, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Since then, I’ve met countless parents who felt that they too were unprepared for the birth process in navigating the healthcare system. The next time I had a baby, I learned that in order to have the most empowering birth possible, I needed to learn the evidence on childbirth practices. We are now offering the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class totally online. In your class, you will work with an instructor who will skillfully mentor you and your partner in evidence-based care, comfort measures, and advocacy so that you can both embrace your birth and parenting experiences with courage and confidence. Get empowered with an interactive online childbirth class you and your partner will love. Visit evidencebasedbirth.com/childbirthclass to find your class now.