EBB 372 – Comfort Measures and a 41-Week Induction with Hopey Fink and Ben Levin, EBB Childbirth Class Graduates

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:00:

Hi, everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re joined by EBB childbirth class graduates Hopey Fink and Ben Levin about how they navigated a change in plans at 41 weeks and had an empowering hospital birth experience. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker, and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details. Hi, everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. Today, I’m so excited to welcome Hopey and Ben, who are here to talk about their empowering hospital birth experience, including how they had to advocate for themselves. Hopey and Ben both live in St. Louis, Missouri with their daughter, who was born in May of 2025. Hopey and Ben are both attorneys. Hopey practices education law and Ben does commercial litigation. As a family, they love park walks, live music, community, and always continuing to learn. Hopey and Ben are both graduates of the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth class with Anna Sutkowski, and they’re here today to share their birth story with us. Hopey and Ben, welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:01:24:

Thanks. It’s so great to meet you, Rebecca.

 

Ben Levin – 00:01:26:

Thanks so much.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:01:27:

So, I was wondering if you could just like take us back to the beginning and how you found out about Evidence Based Birth®.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:01:32:

Sure. We actually got connected through our doula, Anna, who also is an instructor for Evidence Based Birth®. So, they’re part of actually like a doula collective. So, Anna wasn’t the one who ended up attending her birth, but we took the class with her. It also had come recommended from a friend. So that’s how we kind of had initially been connected with our doulas. But it worked out really well because we had been doing the pre-meetings with our doulas and then the class kind of flowed pretty naturally from that. We did it over Zoom. And so, it was great to connect with other people kind of on the same stage.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:02:06:

And what led you both to like, even consider hiring a doula in the first place?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:02:10:

It was something that had been on my radar for a while. I had a friend a while back who was interested in becoming a doula and so kind of learned about it from her, I think. And the more that I read and learned, it seemed like a really great asset for. The birth that I was wanting to have. Is that something that was on your radar really? I know we talked about it pretty early on.

 

Ben Levin – 00:02:30:

I don’t know if it was me on my radar as soon as it was on yours, but pretty soon after you became pregnant, I was just kind of thinking about the birth and pregnancy and just how much we like didn’t know because having never been through those things, it seemed like a good idea to have some help from someone who is trained. And it seemed to be, it just flowed naturally from there, like I hope you said.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:02:56:

So you were open, Ben, to having more support.

 

Ben Levin – 00:02:59:

Certainly. Yeah. I was going to take all the support that I could possibly get.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:03:

And what kind of birth were you both planning then?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:03:07:

I had for a long time been interested in having as few interventions as possible. In part, that was because, and so just wanting to go into labor spontaneously. I had, I’m the oldest of four. So I remember when my mom was pregnant with my youngest sister, at least, and kind of remember the excitement around waiting for labor to start. And of course, at that time, I wasn’t really that prudent into like what was happening in her labors. Had talked with her since and have talked with others. I’ve always liked hearing birth stories and hearing different experiences. So for me, part of what I wanted to get out of a birth experience was this connection with other women in my family and others throughout history. Really, I just thought it was really cool that this is something that humans have been doing for a long time. And so for me, it was almost kind of the spiritual layer of wanting to kind of see just what my body was capable of doing. Also kind of on a practical level, I don’t love needles. So was kind of hoping to avoid the epidural for that reason. And the more that I learned about possibility of like a cascade of interventions. The plan was really just… To hopefully see if labor could start on its own and hopefully kind of at each juncture make a decision that was going to allow us to reduce interventions, but also keeping in mind like, throughout we also discussed like openness to interventions like, if that was what was required for our baby to- Come into the world safely and you know, so I think, we had kind of um we talked about a plan a but we also had other, you know, options that we discussed throughout. And this was part of what was helpful about this class was kind of coming up with. A list of preferences instead of necessarily a set birth plan. Would you say that you had any good to add on that?

 

Ben Levin – 00:05:03:

No, I mean, that was also my approach going in. I kind of have a low intervention philosophy with like my own health. I don’t really like. Getting needles or taking pills or doing anything. So kind of having that sort of natural preference also kind of aligned with what I was looking for. That being said, also, like, good to have, you know, a plan for if and when does intervention become necessary.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:05:33:

So you’re both kind of aligned in that your wishes for that then.

 

Ben Levin – 00:05:38:

Yeah. I think that we were. For the most part aligned. I think that our kind of communications through the pregnancy revealed that I was probably a little more like. I was probably a little quicker to accept the need for interventions than you were. Would you agree with that?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:05:56:

Yeah, I think so.

 

Ben Levin – 00:05:57:

And we just had a lot of communications about… Kind of what our approach was going to be.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:06:05:

Another thing said, we have family in the medical field, certainly. Are not, we really do believe in, you know, having medical care too. So I think that’s what we appreciated about kind of the Evidence Based Birth® information sharing was just kind of understanding how to weigh all of the facts about different options and to know kind of within this realm of like, we knew that overarchingly we wanted low intervention for all these reasons, but also kind of really understanding what each decision point was going to present with us in terms of option.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:06:38:

And so as you educated yourself and got prepared, like what were some of the things you learned from the EBV childbirth class that maybe you didn’t know or hadn’t really thought about in depth before?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:06:48:

Well, I think something that became relevant was just different kind of different induction methods. Something that wasn’t really on my radar because I had been thinking about, I don’t want to be in serious. And I think like a big takeaway, even just I remember the order of the videos that we watched were like, I think at some point you said like, you know, we’re going to talk about induction. You should watch all this, you know, even if this is not what you’re planning. I’m glad that we did, you know, go through the C-section information just to really have all that information was helpful for me. I think something else that sticks out for me was a discussion about kind of. Relative versus absolute risks, which was something we kind of thought of in the moment too when advocating, just kind of trying to really understand from the providers what the… What the actual risks are. And that was something that stuck with me from the course.

 

Ben Levin – 00:07:42:

And for me, probably starting from a lower level of base knowledge, just like, what is Pitocin? What is Misoprostol? What is a Foley balloon? And worrying about the intervention cascade, how one thing can very easily lead to another was an interesting concept that, you know, it’s like… Once you hear it, you’re like, duh, like makes sense. Obviously there’s kind of this like Dequins, but I found it valuable to sort of be walked through how that occurs.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:08:13:

So you were planning a hopefully low intervention birth. Were you planning, where were you planning to get birth at home or in a hospital?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:08:20:

The plan was always a hospital. There’s a good hospital really pretty close to us. And I think because this was our first birth in particular, I think that was where we felt most comfortable. But have… I had my OB. Before I was pregnant and really like her. And she was aligned. You know, we were communicating from the start about kind of what these preferences were. And I felt good about her understanding of what we wanted. And so that was always the plan was to be at this hospital, but hopefully to labor at home for as long as possible.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:08:56:

So take us then to the end of your pregnancy or getting close to your due date, what was going on?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:09:03:

Yeah, it was. So the end of pregnancy was, I think, a little more emotionally taxing than I was prepared because our baby was. Her estimated due date, which I just, even though I knew like logically and statistically, that’s very common for first time moms, I did just like have in my head, she was going to be early. We didn’t know if it was a boy or a girl. I had been a couple of weeks early. All my siblings had been early. It just felt like that was just in my gut what I thought. And so I was feeling really good leading up to the due date, actually, like third trimester was kind of, I would say, better than second and first for me, certainly physically and kind of emotionally as well. But as we got closer to the due date, I was starting to get nervous just about kind of the lurking conversation about induction. My OB had… Had agreed that like going past 41 weeks was something she was comfortable with. Which I appreciated, but I knew that at some point that would be a conversation and kind of just as we were getting. Further and further past the due date, just knowing that like we would have to maybe make some decisions at some point. The other kind of layer to this was that my my her due date was May 20th. And so late or Memorial Day weekend was a few days after her due date. And my family had all rented an Airbnb in town. They live out of town. So they’d all come in town thinking, oh, we’ll probably get to meet the baby. And that weekend came and went. They all had to leave town and she still wasn’t here. So that was just that was pretty brutal.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:10:40:

Some added pressure you probably didn’t need.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:10:42:

Yeah, exactly. It’s like, I don’t regret that they came, but they did all come back like they had to come back, you know, 10 days later or whatever. And I was doing all the things. I was curb walking, eating the dates, doing the mile circuit. I had gone off work a couple of days before my due date. And so I think like, yeah, in retrospect, I probably could have worked another week, but I was just off. And so kind of finding it hard to occupy myself during that waiting time and getting more and more anxious and just more and more uncomfortable. So that was, yeah, kind of how the end of it was going. I know from your perspective, you were-

 

Ben Levin – 00:11:18:

The last ideas were rough. Yeah, it was hard. It was like waiting around and you were, we were just kind of like stressed. Family came, the family left. It was like, is this ever going to happen? You had one comment in like the last couple of days where you’re like, it feels like I’m as far away from having this baby as I was in high school. And like, that is like how it felt. It was like.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:43:

Even though it’s not true, it still feels that way. Yeah.

 

Ben Levin – 00:11:46:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:47:

It could happen anytime, but because you don’t know when it’s gonna happen, you’re like in this limbo, right it’s-

 

Ben Levin – 00:11:53:

Very much a limbo. and then it happened. So, yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:11:56:

Well, and the other relevant part of that was that as we went further and further past the due date, I was just having really a hard time sleeping, which throughout pregnancy and really even before. I’ve always kind of been a rough sleeper. And in pregnancy, it just got really bad by the end. I was just waking up constantly to go to the bathroom and I was just really uncomfortable. And then kind of this added layer of the waiting and the anxiety there was really wreaking havoc on my ability to get through the night. So I had, I think at 40 weeks, five days, I was really uncomfortable, didn’t really sleep at all that night. And then at 40 weeks, six days, I was up in the middle of the night with what I thought were contractions. And so just kind of this mind game with the sleep was. Definitely factored into how the labor played out as well.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:46:

Yeah. So what happened? Did you did you have the induction conversation with your OB? Like what happened next?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:12:52:

So we had an appointment at 40 weeks where we. The plan was just, let’s keep coasting. Let’s see. We didn’t talk about induction at that point. And we had another appointment at 41 weeks. So this is where, like, the night prior to that, I had started getting contractions. And I didn’t know if it was prodromal labor. I had been having some, I had been having a lot of Braxton Hicks and kind of some mysterious, like, some contractions that I wasn’t really sure what to make of them. And so that night, I started timing them. They were getting closer together. I felt like, wow, this is really it. And was getting really excited, kind of let Ben sleep a little bit, as I’d heard people said to do, and then kind of excitedly told him, I think I’m in labor. And then kind of as the sun was coming up, the contractions started just sort of petering out. We had an appointment already on the schedule to go see our OB in the afternoon. And we decided, okay, well, we’ll just go to that appointment and kind of see what she says. When we got to the appointment, we had an NST. Just we had been having those and that was perfectly fine. But when they took my blood pressure, I had a couple of slightly elevated blood pressure readings. So it was really and I forget the exact number, but it wasn’t like-

 

Ben Levin – 00:14:08:

The low end of high.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:14:08:

Yes. Scary high. But it was in that higher. No, with that, combined with the fact that I was at 41 weeks, that was when at that appointment, my OB was like, okay, we should talk about. Having this happen sooner rather than later because of this high blood pressure. And that was really a bummer. In some ways, it was like, because I knew we were at some point going to have this conversation, it was almost. We’re leaving just to know that we were having the conversation at least in some way. And to know that blood pressure was a part of it that pushed us toward, okay, we agree, we should probably. Go in and we discussed being able to go home and try to sleep a little bit. So basically, this was in the early afternoon, and we scheduled to go into the hospital at 9 p.m. So in the meantime, we went home. I tried to sleep. I actually checked my blood pressure at home a couple times as well, just hoping really to see if there was going to be a change. And I did get another high reading there. So it kind of felt like we had, we had a lot of information to make the decision, which I felt good about. Doing that extra blood pressure check just gave us that extra information where we felt like, okay, this probably does make sense. And also in that time, I came home and I like pulled out my Evidence Based Birth®, like booklet, and we started reading about the induction methods just to refresh ourselves, which, again, wasn’t something we’d been planning on. So it was nice to have like a reference to go back to when it became more relevant. When we headed then into the hospital at 9 p.m., by that point, my contractions had picked up again. And our doula said that this actually is common in early labor, that sometimes during the day they can space out a lot and then kind of at nighttime pick up again. So it’s possible that what I was experiencing that night before the appointment was just like early labor and then it kind of spaced out more. During the day and then picked up again. So I don’t know if at this point, if it was prodromal or if it was early labor.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:13:

But your body was doing things like it was it was almost time.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:16:18:

Exactly. Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:19:

If you were going to time an induction for when your body was ready, it sounds like your body was starting to get there.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:16:24:

Basically.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:16:25:

Yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:16:26:

Yeah. And so and actually then when we got to the hospital, the contractions were. Well, this. Yeah. This became relevant again because we got to the hospital and had a conversation. We got hooked up to some monitors because of the blood pressure. What the resident there was seeing as like one D cell that the baby had. And so that. Raised the level of concern and we were talking about, okay, let’s do Misoprostol and a fully balloon in combination. And the way that they were talking about that was that you can actually reduce the risk of a C-section if you do those in combination. So that was the plan. We called our doula and talked about it. Felt comfortable with that decision to do an Misoprostol and a Foley balloon. In the meantime, we were kind of waiting on a couple things. They had taken a urine sample to try to test for preeclampsia. They were getting me hooked up to the nitrous oxide, which was something I had planned on using. And by the time they were actually coming in to administer those interventions, the contractions had really picked up on their own. And so there was a second resident who came in and said that she wasn’t comfortable giving Misoprostol because there’s a risk of, like, hyper-stimulation. In the uterus if you’re already having those contractions. So on the one hand, I kind of felt good that my body was like, was doing the contractions on its own at that point that I really was like in labor. And to this day, if someone asked if I’m induced, I’m like, I mean, I had an induction scheduled, but I was kind of I was already in labor when we got there.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:00:

Early labor. Yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:18:02:

Right. So, yeah, the second resident came in and said, that they were comfortable doing the Misoprostol. And so… Kind of casually mentioned then, okay, so then we’ll just start Pitocin. And that hadn’t been part of the prior conversation where we had discussed this thoroughly with our doula and we felt like good about the plan. That was, that kind of freaked me out when she said that. Just, I had been hoping to avoid Pitocin because of… Just what I understood about how it can kind of escalate that cascade of interventions and also just that the contractions are often harder to deal with and could, you know, lead to… Wanting an epidural when that wasn’t part of my plan as well. So knowing that, you know, sometimes Pitocin is, is like, can be a helpful part of the plan. It was just something we were hoping to avoid unless necessary. So when it was kind of casually mentioned as just like something that we were going to do after that wasn’t part of what we had discussed, we kind of, I got a little bit on high alert and kind of upset. And this is where Ben was really helpful in kind of slowing things down and trying to like… Really assess what the risk was. This was kind of like a pivotal point where we were trying to really understand what was going on with the high blood pressure and the possible D cell. And just, we wanted to understand like, if this was necessary, we were willing to do it. But if it wasn’t, then we wanted to try just the fully balloon to kind of… Lower just the number of interventions we were doing.

 

Ben Levin – 00:19:35:

And I think what we kind of realized is that there is nothing emergent happening at that moment. There’s no reason we had to rush into anything. This was like after midnight. It was like 1230 in the morning. We were already kind of tired. When the doctor mentioned Pitocin it did kind of force us to like re-evaluate where we were at- You know as long as the d-cells weren’t happening like too much. And there was some question about what did the D cell the doctor observed was even a D cell. The nurse seemed to think that the monitor, I just turned upside down or something that was on Hopey’s belly. Yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:20:15:

The urine sample came back and I didn’t have preeclampsia.

 

Ben Levin – 00:20:19:

Yeah. The heart rate was fine. Your heart rate was fine. The blood pressure readings. We had gotten some on the low end of Hyde, some other that were normal, but it didn’t seem like that was really escalating. So we were able at that point to just kind of take a breath. And, um, of figure out what made sense, which led eventually to getting the fully blown, which kind of carried us through into the morning.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:47:

So Ben, what did you say when they, you know, were you the one that respond, like gave the final response about the Pitocin or did Hopey give

 

Hopey Fink – 00:20:53:

them?

 

Ben Levin – 00:20:53:

No, I wasn’t the one that gave the final response. I think that when it was mentioned, I think Hopey was the one who originally was just like, hold on a second, like what is happening? And then I think the nurse actually very helpfully chipped in and sort of challenged the doctor in a, you know, professional. Collegial way about just like whether that was a D cell or not. And then later the doctor left and the nurse came in and was like, by the way, you don’t like, you don’t need Pitocin if you don’t like want it. So actually the nurse was a very helpful advocate for us and just kind of affirmed what we were already feeling, which is that Pitocin wasn’t really necessary at that time.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:21:37:

Mm-hmm.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:21:38:

Right. We felt like, you know, if this really was an emergency, which, you know, we were not sure. We don’t know how to interpret those blood pressure things. But the nurse coming in and saying that helped us kind of calm down and realize, okay. Just got a better sense of the relative risks of just kind of letting things unfold at that point. Doing just the Foley balloon instead of… Beating things along with the Pitocin.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:04:

So how dilated were you when you got to the hospital?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:22:07:

You know, do you remember, did they do a check actually when we got there? I think I was at like Yana.

 

Ben Levin – 00:22:14:

I think you were at like, oh, I was going to say half. Yeah. You were like pretty like.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:22:18:

Oh, I think I was at one at the appointment earlier in the day.

 

Ben Levin – 00:22:21:

Okay, got it.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:22:22:

And I think I was maybe at one and a half when I got there. Not particularly-

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:22:25:

Dilated. Okay. So then what happened next? They inserted the Foley and then did you try to get some rest overnight?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:22:34:

Tried to. I tried to. Did not, though. Yeah. The Foley was… Was really painful. The contractions got really painful in a way that I was not particularly expecting. I had, you know, listened to different stories with the Foley, and I know that there’s just a range of experiences people have with it. But for me, it was really intense. And I was starting to get just, I think, a little panicky because I just hadn’t expected it to be that intense before I was even at four centimeters and had this plan of kind of going without an epidural. And so just started to get ahead of myself a little bit of like, oh, if this is how much it hurts now, will I be able to take that? One thing that happened at that point was that, again, the nurse was really helpful with was we went on intermittent monitoring. She helped us get, you know, advocate for that and get set up on it. And then I could go in and out of the tub. We were in a room that had a tub, which I had wanted, and that ended up being really great. So it

 

Ben Levin – 00:23:31:

was like 20 minutes of monitoring and 40 minutes off. So it’s basically 20 minutes in bed and then 40 minutes in the tub. And we basically did that for at least three cycles. So like that was kind of the long, dark night.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:23:45:

Yeah.

 

Ben Levin – 00:23:45:

Like the Foley Blue probably went in around like 1, 1.30. I mean, we were late. And then we were kind of in and out of the tub until the mid-morning.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:23:55:

And yeah, I could not sleep. I was trying to rest, but I couldn’t. And at about like 3 a.m., we were, yeah, I was just sort of getting ahead of myself and kind of having a hard time coping. And we realized, oh, this is what we have a doula for. So we called our doula who was on call.

 

Ben Levin – 00:24:11:

At 3 in the morning.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:24:12:

Yeah. And when she got there, it totally changed the vibe. It was so great. Really just affirmed why we had wanted a doula because she just kind of brought this sense of calm and helped us see what choices we had available. And so we started, yeah, really getting into a rhythm with going in the tub and we were on the ball for a bit. And kind of doing those position changes, which was part of what my plan had been. And just having her there really helped me kind of settle into just embracing that this was what the Foley balloon was doing. It was painful, but I could cope. And that was really great. Although she did note, we looked at some of her notes, that by like 6 a.m., I was so exhausted really having not slept for going on kind of free. Nice to that point. That I could barely hold my head up. So that was a through line of this whole thing was I was really, really exhausted, but was trying to keep going. And the Foley balloon came out in like 8.20 in the morning. So I was at four centimeters then. That was like instant relief, actually, which kind of affirmed that the Foley was what was causing those really intense contractions for me, because after that, I got a bit of a break. And I think I rested a little bit. I wasn’t really sleeping, but it was definitely a little bit of a lull, which was helpful. Kind of for that whole morning stretch, I was just laboring, doing the balls, you know, resting a little bit. A little before 10 a.m., I was at five centimeters. And at that point, my OB came in and did a membrane sweep, which ended up… Basically, like, within five minutes, my water broke. So it was kind of like she broke the water there. And so…

 

Ben Levin – 00:25:54:

That’s what we think, anyway.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:25:56:

And that was when then we got into a really great rhythm, kind of around like 11 a.m. And this is where like when I say that I feel I had a positive experience despite, you know, the plan shifting. This is the stretch that I’m thinking of where I was on my hands and knees in the bed. My mom was there. Ben was there. And our doula was there. And they were all just being so like affirming and great, you know, feeding me some cranberry juice and doing hip squeezes. I was using a TENS unit and nitrous oxide and just kind of was in this real groove where I felt like I was able to really kind of practice and just channel what I had been preparing for mentally with thinking about this experience as something that, you know, many, many, many women have gone through and really kind of channeling that strength. Thinking about just just past experiences in my life that I wanted to call to mind in those moments. So that was really definitely the best part. And it lasted for a few hours. Right. I mean, I kind of blocked-

 

Ben Levin – 00:26:59:

Yeah. That was at least three or four hours.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:02:

Wow.

 

Ben Levin – 00:27:03:

In like the middle of the day.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:27:05:

It didn’t feel like that to me, but that was, yeah.

 

Ben Levin – 00:27:08:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:09:

So, so far, I was just trying to make a list of all the comfort measures you use because you were like using a really wide range. You talk about, you know, water in the tub, eating and drinking, the TENS unit, massage with the hip squeezes, the positions, the birth ball, kind of the mindset techniques you were using.

 

Ben Levin – 00:27:29:

We have like little signs up around the realm.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:32:

I work with the affirmations. And then you were surrounded by support.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:27:36:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:36:

You know, and then you had the nitrous as well when you needed it. Is there anything I’m missing? Because that’s a lot.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:27:43:

No, I mean that, yeah, I was in the TENS unit.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:27:46:

Yeah, the TENS unit.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:27:47:

Yeah. Yeah, we really had built up this good, like, I don’t want to, yeah, I don’t want to use a violent word, you know, a big arsenal of comfort measures that was really helpful. And I think above all, like, it really was the people in the room that, you know. Helped me know which of those were available to me to begin with, but then also just really set that tone that felt just, I felt comfortable, despite it being like a hospital setting, which when I had first toured the hospital, you know, it’s a, it’s a great hospital, but I just, oh, I was kind of like. This hospital you know it didn’t feel particularly homey-

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:22:

It’s still clinical, yeah. Right.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:28:25:

We kind of built that little space though because, um, yeah. Because, everyone who was there was really helpful. And then started like, using the doulas like phrases.

 

Ben Levin – 00:28:34:

I stole her, catchphrases. Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:36:

Like, what were some of her catchphrases?

 

Ben Levin – 00:28:38:

Breathe it out, blow it out, let it go. You’re doing, and you’re just kind of like. Or so the other one.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:28:46:

I don’t know. Yeah, there was a whole bunch of them, but yeah, it was kind of… I know. Ride it. Ride it a lot. Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:28:55:

Hmm. That’s amazing. I love how you said, they, they set the tone for the room. It’s like, you can go into an atmosphere that’s not necessarily the most homey you know, friendly warm space and you just turn it into your own space.

 

Ben Levin – 00:29:09:

Yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:29:09:

And another part of that was, we had I had made a playlist of just like, basically every song that I possibly liked and could potentially, think of wanting to hear. And so, it was like thousands and thousands of songs. But then, Ben was kind of curating it throughout. So, that was really throughout the labor, especially when I got to the pushing stage, which we’ll get to, but was just fun because it was like each song that would come up I would have an association with just a previous part of my life and would get to kind of think about that part of my life, And kind of that was both distracting and kind of focusing. So that was another good, I guess comfort measure with the music too. Which we kind of had on and off during that part. Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:29:50:

Yeah. So when did your plans change again?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:29:54:

They changed again when, so I guess I would say during the latter part of this, like really good groove I was in. It started to feel, the doula said, like, she felt like we were getting toward transition. Like, I was, I threw up twice. I was getting, the contractions were getting really close together.

 

Ben Levin – 00:30:16:

Yeah, pushing her.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:30:17:

I kind of felt a little pushy. And in hindsight, I’m like, maybe I just sort of, maybe I tricked myself into thinking I felt pushy because I knew that was a transition feeling. But it definitely was kind of feeling like we were getting toward something. And that’s what our doula, and even I think the nurses were kind of starting to be like, okay, she grew up. Like. Okay. And then we had at 2 p.m., got a check and I was at a whopping five and a half centimeters. So all of that had only dilated me half a centimeter since basically the morning time. I was really effaced at that point. So I do think that maybe a lot of that work was going toward the effacement. I mean, who knows? What that labor pattern, like, you know, what that would have looked like if, would have, could have, should have on different things.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:31:05:

Like an hour later. Yeah.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:31:07:

Right. But at that point it was like, I was so exhausted at that point. I was really kind of in labor land. It was all just happening sort of fuzzily. And so the minute we got that check, that information from the check, it did seem like the decision just kind of flowed from there. Just making sense that I probably, my body was just so exhausted that I probably needed the rest and that the epidural could help me rest. And actually our doula is the one, and she knew and really supported my goal of trying to avoid the epidural. But when she was the one who kind of voiced it after that check, kind of like, this might be what an epidural is for. That was helpful to me too, because I, you know, there was a part of me that even just like, I didn’t want to let down like this, this plan I had talked about with my doula and the fact that she was seeing that this might be helpful with, and I just really trusted her with. Definitely kind of gave voice to what I was already sort of feeling after that check. And I know you talked about that moment too.

 

Ben Levin – 00:32:13:

Yeah, I mean, it just, it just like made sense to that point. You had been, you had been working like so hard for so long, but you also hadn’t slept through night’s sleep. And I could just tell how tired you were. And it was like, it was a little worrying because it was like, what would happen if you just ran out of energy? You know, I was like. Trying to feed you little sips of like cranberry juice and like orange slices and whatever. But like when I was matching up what you were intaking versus the effort you were exerting, it was like at some point you’re just going to like run out of gas. And that was more of a concern for me as kind of the hours progressed. And then when we learned you were at five, I was like, this is not, you know, I was worried it wasn’t sedainable. And I’m glad that the doula kind of volunteered it at that point.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:33:04:

And they really know what no one like said C-section. Like, it’s not like that was. I don’t even think that was super present in my mind. But looking back, like, yeah, I think that that decision point was important because it’s I know that that happens often that people get exhausted and then they’re not progressing and kind of feel backed into a corner with with having a C-section when that wasn’t in their plan. And so, yeah, I sort of saw that epidural then in that moment as like, this is a tool that’s going to help my body rest and relax and really just kind of finish the work that it had been starting for a long time at that point. And I think the other thing that made that decision easier is that I was so, I was so out of it that like. One of the reasons I wanted to avoid the epidural was I don’t like needles. I don’t like I was afraid of that sensation. I was afraid of not being able to kind of tolerate it mentally. But I was so out of it that I it was I was just kind of like-

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:05:

Like whatever-

 

Hopey Fink – 00:34:07:

Fine. Yeah. The procedure itself was fine.

 

Ben Levin – 00:34:10:

Yeah. Probably when I was most proud of you, like accepting the need for the epidural and making that transition into a path that I knew wasn’t your first choice. But just doing it with a lot of… A lot of kind of clear eyedness.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:26:

So Hopey, what happened next after you got the epidural?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:34:30:

After I got the epidural, I fell asleep. For about an hour. And that was great. I woke up and got checked at around 5 p.m., and was complete.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:47:

Oh, my goodness.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:34:49:

Yeah. So I went from five and a half centimeters before the epidural to fully complete. And I think that affirmed that it felt like my body had been doing all this work and it just kind of hadn’t been able to consolidate the outcome until I just rested. So when I woke up, I was almost like, oh, gosh, I was hoping I would sleep a little more just knowing that I was heading into then caring for the baby and pushing and all that. But they didn’t, you know, the kind of providers were all there and thought, okay, like it’s it’s time to push. Our doula had actually gone home to try to get a little rest herself as well. Because she didn’t up through the night and because of that thing, Ben was also up through this whole night too. So everyone was exhausted and trying to rest, but… Dana ended up coming back. And so I started pushing at about 6 p.m. And it was weird. After having felt everything up to that point, it was like strange to not feel in the same way. But I… When I woke up, I was proud of having made that decision and I was proud of having labored for as long as I had. And right away, the pushes were pretty productive. So that also felt good. So we kind of got into a nice… Pushing flow as well. It was kind of a fun vibe in the room. I think everyone was relieved. Maybe I wasn’t aware of how much other people had been starting to get concerned about how exhausted I was. And so it felt like a vibe shift in the room. And this is when we just had a really good playlist going. We were kind of chatting about each song, which, yeah, when I was, before I got the epidural, that was not what was happening. I was not really talking much. So that felt really good. And so I pushed for like 40, 45 minutes. Our daughter was born. She came out in kind of one little flither. And we didn’t know if it was a boy or a girl. So Ben announced it was a girl and we… Shared her name and it was just, it was really great. My mom was there as well, which was really cool. And she was so excited. First grandchild on both sides. Ben’s dad came in after a bit. And it just, yeah, it was wonderful. What I hadn’t realized was that because she was born around shift change, it was like we… Didn’t sleep that whole night either. Basically we kind of. Had this, you know, these really happy couple hours. And then it was kind of like, all right, here’s your baby. Like, take care of her. And so that the first night was a little overwhelming because I was afraid of falling asleep on her when I was nursing. But really after that, I was able to rest a little bit in the hospital. And definitely when we got home, like I had my mom around, we had some family in and out where, they were able to cover some of the shifts. And I also think that at a certain point, I just… Realized I wasn’t going to die from lack of sleep and kind of got out of my head about it. And so although we really were very objectively very sleep-deprived, that whole, you know, first portion, once we had our daughter there and we were just excited that she was there and caring for her, it felt so much easier, honestly. And we’ve been really lucky. She’s just been… Such a fun and easy baby. She’s really here. Um, but she’s a really good sleeper. And we didn’t have too many issues with latching or feeding. I had a little shallow latch at the beginning, but pretty quickly kind of got into a good group with that too. So, yeah, it’s been really fun.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:38:33:

So going back to the moment that your daughter was born, did she go straight to your chest?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:38:38:

Yes, she did.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:38:40:

And what did what was that like when you looked down at her?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:38:43:

It was it was amazing. It was strange. I think I felt almost a disconnect because of, I don’t know, it felt like, the pregnancy was its own thing. It was hard at points. And it was so strange to look down and be like, oh, that was her all along. I think like, maybe because of just like the labor had been so long and I was so exhausted for a while, it was kind of hard for me to like connect the two experiences of, or the free experience was really the pregnancy and the labor and then the baby that was there. But I definitely felt just so happy that she was there and so happy to have her on my chest. She kind of was skirmering around and found the breast. And we had a really great little golden hour there. Yeah, with our doula, my mom, with Ben, it was kind of felt like the whole team, the whole group that had been there with me through the labor was able to kind of bask in that.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:48:

And Ben, for the moment of your daughter’s birth and like the hour after, what was your experience like? What were you thinking or feeling?

 

Ben Levin – 00:39:57:

The hour after the birth?

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:39:59:

Yeah, or the moment of birth up through that first hour.

 

Ben Levin – 00:40:02:

It was awesome. Yeah, like the like, pushing in the birth was like the fun part of the whole experience from my perspective. But then the hour after was just really, really special. And I just never I never been more proud of Hopey. Miriam was already such a cute, perfect baby. It was great getting to be there with your mom. My dad came in and we had some sandwiches delivered. So like hard, really nice party.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:40:33:

It was like party time.

 

Ben Levin – 00:40:34:

And then the hour went by and they were like, okay, we’re moving you to the postpartum. And everyone kind of left. And it was this awesomest baby for this like this night that we were already like so tired. So it was sort of like funny. How it’s like they rush all these doctors and nurses in for the birth. And then they’re like a party. And then you’re just like left with this baby. Like, oh, like she’s ours now. We have to like, we have to like make sure she makes it through the night. And that hope he makes it through the night. But it was really special.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:09:

So Hopey and Ben, do you have any advice for listeners who are planning on entering birth or parenthood soon?

 

Hopey Fink – 00:41:17:

I think, well, we found a doula, as I’ve mentioned, to be really helpful. And one way that I wasn’t expecting the doula to be helpful was actually a postpartum check-in. Because I think as I was reflecting on this, some, I don’t know if it’s advice or just insight that I have had, is that the process of narrative formation, I think, is really important. And that even as we were in the experience, it was, I think, maybe because I had listened to a lot of first stories before. Going through this experience myself, I felt like… It helped me kind of reframe those moments that were challenging as like these moments of empowerment and advocacy, like kind of even as they were happening. And then certainly. Checking in with our doula a couple days postpartum. She came to visit and we kind of debriefed the whole thing. And I think that that was really helpful just to, on the one hand, really acknowledge a lot of the what ifs. Like, what if I hadn’t had that appointment at 41 weeks? Maybe I would have. Just kind of gone into labor on my own or I could have developed preeclampsia. You know, what if I had gotten the epidural sooner? Just kind of thinking about all of those things and being able to kind of own what the reality was and own our decisions. That was a really valuable part of having a doula because she had been there through all of that and could help us process it. And yeah, that sort of narrative formation piece. Was really, I think, what has helped me have this story. And kind of see all those different decision points for what they were.

 

Ben Levin – 00:42:57:

Yeah, I guess. Everything Hopey said is correct. And then, know, make sure that you have a plan, but also build some flexibility into your plan. I think most people don’t get do everything in their plan. To like be prepared to be flexible. And then also just make sure you’re communicating with your partner and like sharing what your what your hopes are, what your fears are, your expectations are. I didn’t just like being on the same page as, your birth partner is so important. And Epic helped both of us.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:43:37:

Yeah, such great advice. The importance of how you tell stories, you know, even as your daughter grows up and how you talk about her birth matters. And then also what you were saying about, Ben, about like building wiggle room into your plans, you know, for. For detours, is not a bad thing.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:43:58:

Right. And, like, I think particularly, like the epidural as a tool that’s not just for pain management, but also kind of to help your body relax. That’s something that I just hadn’t. Thought up until actually a friend had mentioned it kind of right in the week before. That was part of her experience. And so kind of that permission structure almost as I had been thinking of it. That was just particularly helpful for me. So if anyone is in that boat in thinking about the epidural. That was also really helpful. But again, it kind of goes back to stories, just having heard a friend’s experience about that and yeah, listening to a lot of. People share what their experiences were really generally helped with understanding the different, things that can happen and just to be prepared to understand what options can be. Again, that was also what was really helpful about the the little chart in the Evidence Based. Birth booklet. That was, you know, what we referred to. So all of that preparation ended up being really helpful.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:45:01:

Sounds like you were both informed and then empowered too. So amazing. Thank you, Ben and Hopey, for sharing your birth story with our listeners. We all, I’m sure we all loved listening to your story.

 

Hopey Fink – 00:45:13:

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

 

Ben Levin – 00:45:15:

Thank you so much. Yeah.

 

Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:45:17:

This podcast episode was brought to you by the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class. This is Rebecca speaking. When I walked into the hospital to have my first baby, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Since then, I’ve met countless parents who felt that they too were unprepared for the birth process and navigating the healthcare system. The next time I had a baby, I learned that in order to have the most empowering birth possible, I needed to learn the evidence on childbirth practices. We are now offering the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class totally online. In your class, you will work with an instructor who will skillfully mentor you and your partner in evidence-based care, comfort measures, and advocacy so that you can both embrace your birth and parenting experiences with courage and confidence. Get empowered with an interactive online childbirth class you and your partner will love. Visit evidencebasedbirth.com/childbirthclass to find your class now.